NBSR: How do you define "social unit"?

SingleMom31

All over The Knot's etiquette board, brides continue to say that you CANNOT break up "social units" when issuing invitations. In theory that makes sense to me, and I'd never dream of not inviting married, engaged, cohabitating, or long term couples together.

But (and here's where I'm struggling), that has turned into everyone needing a +1 since (for example) your cousin that you haven't seen since the last family get together 2 months before might have met someone and gone out a few times. Or heck, may meet someone in the two months between invites going out and the actual wedding. They'd apparently a "social unit" and would need to be invited as such. So to avoid the embarrassment of your cousin having to call you to inform you that his social unit was slighted and/or your cousin cutting you out of her life for slighting her so egregiously, you better just invite everyone with a +1.

Aside from the craziness of that example, what actually makes a social unit? It doesn't matter since our invites are out, and we've only got 20 days left, but I'm genuinely curious. It's not in Emily Post's Etiquette anywhere. And you ladies seem to have much more sense than the Knotties.

EastCoastBride

Eh, the people who "insist" that everyone needs a +1 because of all the possible "what ifs" are rude.  When you made up your guest list, you went off what you knew to be the situaiton at that moment.  If things change and people want to reach out to you- then you can decide if you can make an addition or not.  But that doesn't mean you have to give everyone a +1 if you truly can't afford it. 

SingleMom31

Thanks. We did manage to accommodate everyone at ours (sans the ridiculous request from my older sister to invite her friends) though, so it's more of a general question.

The post that prompted it was a girl with a friend who has an abusive on again/off again boyfriend who has a history of starting physical altercations. When the invites went out, there were off again, so no invite for the BF. Now they're on again, so what to do. Nobody (literally) has said not inviting him is okay since there is seemingly ridiculous rule related to social units.

carlieanddanwedding

Thanks. We did manage to accommodate everyone at ours (sans the ridiculous request from my older sister to invite her friends) though, so it's more of a general question. The post that prompted it was a girl with a friend who has an abusive on again/off again boyfriend who has a history of starting physical altercations. When the invites went out, there were off again, so no invite for the BF. Now they're on again, so what to do. Nobody (literally) has said not inviting him is okay since there is seemingly ridiculous rule related to social units.

That's nuts. In her shoes, he would not be invited regardless of the on again, off again status due to his history of becoming violent. Period. Her friend can choose to come or not, but I don't think anyone is obligated to invite a person like that to their wedding no matter what "social unit" he's a part of. I probably wouldn't invite him even if he were related to me!

For DH and I, if a couple considered themselves "serious," we considered them a social unit. If there was doubt, we just asked; if we weren't close enough to a person to ask about their relationship status, that person wasn't close enough to be invited to the wedding. We had one or two people who were invited without SOs who got more serious with them after invites went out and asked us if we would mind them bringing a plus one, and we said yes in every case, but there really weren't that many. It wasn't awkward at all, and no one was offended. We did not give plus ones to anyone not in a "serious" relationship, we were just sure to make sure singles were seated with people they knew and could have a fun time with.

BallSox

Well first of all, my answer only applies to big budgeted events like weddings where a firm headcount is needed and to mess it up could cost you big bucks.  For things like showers, in my social circle, it's not a big deal because they are laid-back and low-key events.  A surprise guest wouldn't cause too much of a ruckus as we always over-plan for food, etc.

At the moment of invitations being sent out, you send to all of the units you know of.  Basically this means husbands/wives/fiances/partners.  As a general rule, I don't invite people I don't know exist so unless long-lost cousin and I are keeping in touch, I don't know she's seeing some guy and therefore I wouldn't be inviting him.  

If budget/space is not a concern, you could always call and ask them/ask aunts or uncles, but honestly, I wouldn't invite a physically violent sometimes boyfriend regardless of his relationship to me.  

nicholssquared

A wedding is not a prom. It is about celebrating the couple getting married and not having a all-expenses paid date with your S/O. If you have a single friend that's close to you, and you'd like him/her to be there, but you're not sure if they're involved with anyone and frankly can't afford to add an arbitrary "and guest" to your invitation, then simply invite the friend. If the friend is offended because they've been dating someone and they didn't get an invite, then they need to revisit the principle of the matter: they got an invite because BTB thought you would be happy to come celebrate their wedding with them. If they can't celebrate without their SO, then by all means they should decline.

I believe I read somewhere that "and guests" are kinda rude anyway. If BTB really wanted to follow proper etiquette, she should get in touch with all her friends and family, learn if they had S/Os and what their names were, and address the invitation to them directly. This also allows BTB to know exactly who's involved and to more accurately anticipate who is coming as a single and who is coming as a pair, and prioritize her guest list accordingly. Also, by directly inviting the S/O, you rule out people who are not involved, but see the "and guest" and think they can find a friend to bring (happened at my wedding - had people I expected to rsvp 1 rsvp 2 and dig up a friend to come at the last minute. So tacky, but what can you do?). If researching in advance is possible for BTB, that's what I would recommend. If not, I would just invite everyone you want to be there as you are able.

Also, anyone who was invited to the wedding as a single, but is involved, and the calls up the BTB putting her on the spot for an invitation for the S/O is incredibly tacky. BTB gets to invite who she wants. She overlooked your S/O, that sucks - accept to go by yourself or decline. It's even more tacky to try manipulate the bride into stretching her budget.

ArgyleBride

nicholssquared said:

I believe I read somewhere that "and guests" are kinda rude anyway. If BTB really wanted to follow proper etiquette, she should get in touch with all her friends and family, learn if they had S/Os and what their names were, and address the invitation to them directly. This also allows BTB to know exactly who's involved and to more accurately anticipate who is coming as a single and who is coming as a pair, and prioritize her guest list accordingly. 

This is true.  To have a committed partner (technically, this means engaged or married, but you would be wise to include co-inhabiting couples) referred to as "guest" makes it pretty clear that the inviter does not know much about the invitee's life and didn't care enough to find out.  Obviously I'd be inclined to forgive a mistake like that, but it's still a faux paux. 

nicholssquared said:

Also, anyone who was invited to the wedding as a single, but is involved, and the calls up the BTB putting her on the spot for an invitation for the S/O is incredibly tacky. BTB gets to invite who she wants. She overlooked your S/O, that sucks - accept to go by yourself or decline. It's even more tacky to try manipulate the bride into stretching her budget.

This, however, is not the case--if the bride and groom overlook a fiance(e) or spouse, they are the ones who erred and a phone call is perfectly appropriate.  BTB doesn't get to split up the social unit, no matter what she "wants."  If they are merely dating, *then* it is not polite to ask to bring the date.

Of course, none of this applies to baby showers, on the old-fashioned principle that men have no interest in going and therefore wouldn't be slighted not to receive an invite.

SingleMom31

ArgyleBride said:

nicholssquared said:

I believe I read somewhere that "and guests" are kinda rude anyway. If BTB really wanted to follow proper etiquette, she should get in touch with all her friends and family, learn if they had S/Os and what their names were, and address the invitation to them directly. This also allows BTB to know exactly who's involved and to more accurately anticipate who is coming as a single and who is coming as a pair, and prioritize her guest list accordingly. 

This is true.  To have a committed partner (technically, this means engaged or married, but you would be wise to include co-inhabiting couples) referred to as "guest" makes it pretty clear that the inviter does not know much about the invitee's life and didn't care enough to find out.  Obviously I'd be inclined to forgive a mistake like that, but it's still a faux paux. 

nicholssquared said:

Also, anyone who was invited to the wedding as a single, but is involved, and the calls up the BTB putting her on the spot for an invitation for the S/O is incredibly tacky. BTB gets to invite who she wants. She overlooked your S/O, that sucks - accept to go by yourself or decline. It's even more tacky to try manipulate the bride into stretching her budget.

This, however, is not the case--if the bride and groom overlook a fiance(e) or spouse, they are the ones who erred and a phone call is perfectly appropriate.  BTB doesn't get to split up the social unit, no matter what she "wants."  If they are merely dating, *then* it is not polite to ask to bring the date.

Of course, none of this applies to baby showers, on the old-fashioned principle that men have no interest in going and therefore wouldn't be slighted not to receive an invite.

Don't you find calling and essentially demanding an invite to be rude though? And what if it was intentional - how awkward would that be? "Hi Sally. I've been dating Ryan for a month now, so I'd like to bring him." "Sorry Betty, but we can't accommodate anyone else."... There's nowhere good that that conversation can go...

I've been invited to weddings where I was invited as part of a group (in this case, a group of coworkers), and we had fun without needing dates. We spend a lot of time together during the day, and it's not fun for SO to tag along with the group since I constantly have to stop and explain who others are. They were happier staying home, we spent an evening supporting our friend/coworker. Win-win.

carlieanddanwedding

SingleMom31 said:

ArgyleBride said:

nicholssquared said:

I believe I read somewhere that "and guests" are kinda rude anyway. If BTB really wanted to follow proper etiquette, she should get in touch with all her friends and family, learn if they had S/Os and what their names were, and address the invitation to them directly. This also allows BTB to know exactly who's involved and to more accurately anticipate who is coming as a single and who is coming as a pair, and prioritize her guest list accordingly. 

This is true.  To have a committed partner (technically, this means engaged or married, but you would be wise to include co-inhabiting couples) referred to as "guest" makes it pretty clear that the inviter does not know much about the invitee's life and didn't care enough to find out.  Obviously I'd be inclined to forgive a mistake like that, but it's still a faux paux. 

nicholssquared said:

Also, anyone who was invited to the wedding as a single, but is involved, and the calls up the BTB putting her on the spot for an invitation for the S/O is incredibly tacky. BTB gets to invite who she wants. She overlooked your S/O, that sucks - accept to go by yourself or decline. It's even more tacky to try manipulate the bride into stretching her budget.

This, however, is not the case--if the bride and groom overlook a fiance(e) or spouse, they are the ones who erred and a phone call is perfectly appropriate.  BTB doesn't get to split up the social unit, no matter what she "wants."  If they are merely dating, *then* it is not polite to ask to bring the date.

Of course, none of this applies to baby showers, on the old-fashioned principle that men have no interest in going and therefore wouldn't be slighted not to receive an invite.

Don't you find calling and essentially demanding an invite to be rude though? And what if it was intentional - how awkward would that be? "Hi Sally. I've been dating Ryan for a month now, so I'd like to bring him." "Sorry Betty, but we can't accommodate anyone else."... There's nowhere good that that conversation can go...

I've been invited to weddings where I was invited as part of a group (in this case, a group of coworkers), and we had fun without needing dates. We spend a lot of time together during the day, and it's not fun for SO to tag along with the group since I constantly have to stop and explain who others are. They were happier staying home, we spent an evening supporting our friend/coworker. Win-win.



Having been in this situation as the BTB, I think it depends a lot from person to person. We had two people ask to include a plus one after the fact - DH's sister, who had gotten very serious very fast with the guy she was seeing after invites went out, and one of DH's cousins, who DH had no idea was seeing someone seriously (he and DH are friendly but not close, and he was mainly invited at MIL's insistence). I didn't find either case rude or presumptuous; they asked long before the rsvp deadline, and were very polite. It was only two extra people, which was hardly going to break the bank, so it was no trouble overall.

Also, DH and I were one of those couples that got serious really fast; we had been friends for years when we got together, and we were serious from the get go. We didn't have any weddings to attend during that time, but if we had, I would have had no problem calling the BTB//GTB, explaining the situation, and asking if I could bring him along. I also wouldn't have been offended if they said sorry, they didn't realize I was in a relationship and their budget couldn't accommodate another person.

nicholssquared

ArgyleBride said:

nicholssquared said:

Also, anyone who was invited to the wedding as a single, but is involved, and the calls up the BTB putting her on the spot for an invitation for the S/O is incredibly tacky. BTB gets to invite who she wants. She overlooked your S/O, that sucks - accept to go by yourself or decline. It's even more tacky to try manipulate the bride into stretching her budget.

This, however, is not the case--if the bride and groom overlook a fiance(e) or spouse, they are the ones who erred and a phone call is perfectly appropriate.  BTB doesn't get to split up the social unit, no matter what she "wants."  If they are merely dating, *then* it is not polite to ask to bring the date.

Of course, none of this applies to baby showers, on the old-fashioned principle that men have no interest in going and therefore wouldn't be slighted not to receive an invite.

To clarify: my statement was really about "dating" significant others - I should have been more clear. A phone call may be appropriate if the BTB has overlooked your FI or DH. However, it's not required for you to call the bride and put her in her place by any stretch. I still think in this situation the better, also appropriate option would be to not call, but simply decline.

My logic is as follows: if the BTB doesn't know me well enough to know that I'm married, do I really need to go to her wedding? Probably not. If I know BTB knows I'm married and specifically didn't invite my DH, I think that's incredibly tacky and rude and I would absolutely decline on principle, but do I need to call the bride out for being tacky? She's not entitled to my opinion about her. If someone hosted their own baby shower, or forgot to send thank you notes after their wedding, or did something equally as tacky, do you call them out, or do you just shake your head and let it go? What purpose do you hope to serve by calling the bride out? It's her wedding, let her have it how she wants and if it's tacky then don't go. Also, if you had to call and ask for an extra invite for your husband or FI, would you really feel comfortable going after that, or would it be an awkward experience? If I didn't receive an invitation for my date and I had to put the bride on the spot for one, I would be worried about her resenting me for doing so and it would pretty much ruin my evening anyway - so not even worth it at that point.

ArgyleBride

It really, truly has nothing to do with trying to "call out" or "shame" anybody.  There is rarely anything to be gained by "putting someone in their place," and trying to is nearly always rude anyway. I actually happen to detest that phrase--how can anyone have the right to decide on someone's "place" for them, and then have the presumption to assign themselves the responsibility of "putting" them there?  It sounds like a caste system for heaven's sake.  I would never attempt it.

If someone invited me to their wedding without realizing I had recently gotten engaged or married, I would assume that they would *want* to know.  True, they might be embarrassed they didn't know in the first place, but if it were me, I would *much* rather find out ahead of time than have the horror or realizing later I had invited one half of a married couple.  

Obviously this does not apply to the uncommitted, merely-dating set.  There it is up to the bridal couple to accommodate requests, or not, as they wish.  Yes, I consider the requests rude in general, but depending on how they are made, I can be softened.  Guest who demand invites may be shocked when they are not forthcoming.  "I'm afraid we're only having our own close friends and family--but we'd love to meet Beaumont another time," is a perfectly polite response.

nicholssquared

ArgyleBride said:

It really, truly has nothing to do with trying to "call out" or "shame" anybody.  There is rarely anything to be gained by "putting someone in their place," and trying to is nearly always rude anyway. I actually happen to detest that phrase--how can anyone have the right to decide on someone's "place" for them, and then have the presumption to assign themselves the responsibility of "putting" them there?  It sounds like a caste system for heaven's sake.  I would never attempt it.

If someone invited me to their wedding without realizing I had recently gotten engaged or married, I would assume that they would *want* to know.  True, they might be embarrassed they didn't know in the first place, but if it were me, I would *much* rather find out ahead of time than have the horror or realizing later I had invited one half of a married couple.  

Obviously this does not apply to the uncommitted, merely-dating set.  There it is up to the bridal couple to accommodate requests, or not, as they wish.  ((Yes, I consider the requests rude in general, but depending on how they are made, I can be softened)).  Guest who demand invites may be shocked when they are not forthcoming.  "I'm afraid we're only having our own close friends and family--but we'd love to meet Beaumont another time," is a perfectly polite response.

The two bolded statements seem to be contradictory to me. Also, the italicized may be what you would prefer, but not necessarily what the BTB would prefer, and there's no way for you to know that. It's also presumptuous to assume the BTB made a mistake - it may have been deliberate. Tacky, yes, but people have done really tacky things before and my previous point stands that when someone does something tacky, the appropriate response is to not call attention to it.

In the double parenthesis, I think this gets to the heart of the matter. They are rude in general. Are there certain situations that may make it less rude? Potentially. I'm not arguing that at all. However, I do firmly advocate that even though it may be relatively more appropriate to call to correct the BTB in certain situations, it's always appropriate to peacefully decline an invitation if something about its nature makes you uncomfortable. The appropriateness of declining the invitation without saying anything further is never in question. Therefore, this is what I would recommend in all cases.

Perhaps my perspective is a little conservative compared to yours, but I felt it deserved to be said so people reading can make an informed decision. 

ETA: Punctuation

msmerymac

If the guest refers to another person as their girlfriend/boyfriend, that's good enough for me. So if they've gone on 5 dates in the past month and have begun to say they are in a relationship, cool. If they've gone on 10 dates in the last 2 months, but wouldn't say they are in a relationship, that's fine, too. I'll go with however they define it.

FWIW, we invited all adults to bring a guest. But the vast majority of our guests were coming from out of town (like all family), and some declined to do that, of course. We also had a less-than-average acceptance rate because of the travel involved (we got married in the city we lived in). 

ArgyleBride

nicholssquared said:

snip

It's also presumptuous to assume the BTB made a mistake - it may have been deliberate. Tacky, yes, but people have done really tacky things before and my previous point stands that when someone does something tacky, the appropriate response is to not call attention to it.

Obviously we simply disagree here, but I am going to respond just to this part.  It is never presumptuous to assume someone does, in fact, have good intentions.  It is simply the more generous way of viewing their actions.  

My last point (I hope) is that when someone is rude to you, "not calling attention to it" is not "the appropriate response."  If that were true, rude people would have everything they ever wanted while polite people got walked all over.  There are polite ways to stand up for yourself.   

As a disclaimer, because I know it will occur to you, yes I know the difference between standing up for yourself (okay) and self-righteous counter-rudeness (not okay).

Stina2012

My mom just got an invitation to a wedding and neither the inner or outer envelope included my fathers name. They have been married over 35 years. She asked what she should do and I told her she should call and ask if he's invited. I told her if they can't afford to invite both of them then they can't afford to invite either of them. So odd.

nicholssquared

ArgyleBride said:

nicholssquared said:

snip

It's also presumptuous to assume the BTB made a mistake - it may have been deliberate. Tacky, yes, but people have done really tacky things before and my previous point stands that when someone does something tacky, the appropriate response is to not call attention to it.

Obviously we simply disagree here, but I am going to respond just to this part.  It is never presumptuous to assume someone does, in fact, have good intentions.  It is simply the more generous way of viewing their actions.  

My last point (I hope) is that when someone is rude to you, "not calling attention to it" is not "the appropriate response."  If that were true, rude people would have everything they ever wanted while polite people got walked all over.  There are polite ways to stand up for yourself.   

As a disclaimer, because I know it will occur to you, yes I know the difference between standing up for yourself (okay) and self-righteous counter-rudeness (not okay).

Fair enough, I recognize that I'm not convincing you of anything. However, I'd still like to further clarify my position.

It is presumptuous when you 'assume the best of the person' in your own self-interest. You can still assume that it was a mistake on the part of the bride regardless of whether you accept or decline. However, when you take the action to try and get something out of it for yourself, you're only assuming the best for a self-serving purpose. It also has a lot more repercussions if you end up being wrong than if you didn't take action on that assumption.

To your second point, that's not a good analogy. When someone is rude about their wedding invitation, it's hardly letting them walk all over me to decline. It's no skin off my back not to go to their wedding - hardly making myself a doormat here. It saves me a day/evening, travel expense and a gift. Would I have liked to go to the wedding? Sure! But would I also like to spend my money and time on something else? It all evens out. Totally different then someone being rude to my face and me not standing up for myself. I think most ladies on this board would recommend when someone does something tacky, whether it's demanding a book instead of a card, or a diaper raffle, etc, you're hardly letting them walk all over you to not attend their party.

Lastly, you may think you know the difference, but you're not very good at putting yourself in the person you may or may not be offending's shoes. It may seem like you're innocently standing up for yourself to you, but you simply don't know if to the BTB your best intentioned response is going to come across as well-meaning, or manipulative, or passive-aggressive, or rude. Is it really so hard to put the feelings of someone else (the guest of honor no less) before your own desire to attend a party? I understand to some, getting the invitation clarified may be worth it, but to me the feelings/confidence of the bride regarding her wedding trumps everything. Her day, her party, her rules, not my place.