https://fw.to/67DiaYI
Munoz was 14 weeks pregnant when she collapsed and was declared brain dead. The hospital will not remove her from life support, against the families wishes. Texas, along with at least two dozen other states, prohibit cutting off life support to a pregnant patient. It provides striking similarities and differences to the Jahi case.
I'm not 100% sure about my feelings on this. I do believe that the baby has a right to live. However, if it was my family member, it would probably be more complicated. It is a sad situation all around.
I am really disgusted by this. They are basically trying to grow a fetus in a cadaver. It's a medical experiment that the government is forcing the dead woman's family to endure. How can anyone with even half a brain support this?
@pobrecita I get where you're coming from. However, I always considered my kids to be babies, from the time I found out I was pregnant.
@chickenonsunday I wonder about your first point too. I know, given the choice, lots of people would want the baby. I have read almost opposite stories of people fighting to keep them on support for the baby. It would be a miracle, as @uconnhuskie007 said.
It does sound morbid about her just being an incubator. I read another article about the family feeling that way. This is local for us, so it's gotten a lot of coverage.
1. If the baby will be fine than why does the family want the mother removed from life support?
Because she is dead?
I agree that the parents of the mother are quoted in the article but I scanned the article a second time to find a quote from the husband. He still goes and sits by her bedside.
Also, this is article is a good reminder to everyone to have a will that includes end of life care.
The husband wants to turn the machines off. He does not want his dead wife's body to be an incubator. She died when she was only 11 weeks pregnant or something.
Sorry @auburngirlsc It is a horrible sad situation. It has been on our news the past couple of days. After the debate about Jahi, I thought this was another angle for discussion.
IDk, it's a tough decision. I think that the husband/father gets to makes the decision for both, so they should be taken off life support. But with that being said, as a mother, if there was a chance your child would survive, wouldn't you want that? Because although my family knows I wouldn't want to be on life support I've never talked to them about being on life support and pregnant. I asked DH and he said it would depend on how far along I was. I do think that 14 weeks is very early, but if the fetus was, say 24 weeks, the earliest it could be viable, would that make a difference?
The doctors say they will be able to tell more about the viability of the pregnancy/how the baby is doing when she's 22-24 weeks. I'll be interested to see. The mother was denied oxygen for a while, but the body is designed to protect the fetus, so I'm very interested in the outcome.
Throwing a wrench into this...I wonder what would happen if no one was there to take custody of the child...ie the dad was killed and there was no family. That would change my feelings, if it were my child. I agree with auburngirlsc. If it was me, I would want my child to have a chance. I don't know if I would want my child to grow up without any family though.
1. If the baby will be fine than why does the family want the mother removed from life support? 2. The article states that the health and viability for the "fetus" remains unknown. I'm assuming this is b/c the hospital isn't able to discuss the medical details b/c the family has yet to allow this. 3. Who is footing the bill?
The bolded, but I agree this is such a tricky thing.
If the baby was a "wanted" baby (which I assume he/she is or was), wouldn't this woman's parents want to give the baby a shot?
It's a really, really tough call though.
BFP 1- EDD 2/09/11 Missed MC DX @11 weeks D&C- 7/25/10 BFP 2- EDD 12/22/11 Natural MC @ 5w 2d BFP 3- EDD 1/25/12 DD Josephine born 1/16/12
From what I read the law supersedes any will. I can see both sides, but it should be the husband's choice. He is being made to continue a pregnancy he doesn't want. It's basically like a women being kept in the hospital to stop her from having an abortion.
"Erick Muñoz said that he and his wife are both paramedics — she with Children’s Medical Center of Dallas, he with the Crowley Fire Department — and that they had discussed removing life support if either fell into a vegetative state. Moreover, she discussed the issue with her father, Ernest Machado, he said."
I find this disgusting. I feel so bad for this family. “It’s about a matter of our daughter’s wishes not being honoured by the state of Texas.” Does this mean that she had a DNR?
"Erick Muñoz said that he and his wife are both paramedics — she with Children’s Medical Center of Dallas, he with the Crowley Fire Department — and that they had discussed removing life support if either fell into a vegetative state. Moreover, she discussed the issue with her father, Ernest Machado, he said."
The thing is though- did she specify her wishes while pregnant? Because that could change her feelings( it would for me). Like I wouldn't want to be in a vegetative state, DH knows that, but we never discussed the possibility of it happening to me while pregnant. DH and I discussed this last night (PSA: talk to your spouse/family).
The doctors say they will be able to tell more about the viability of the pregnancy/how the baby is doing when she's 22-24 weeks. I'll be interested to see. The mother was denied oxygen for a while, but the body is designed to protect the fetus, so I'm very interested in the outcome.
But what happens if they find out the baby is disabled/mentally challenged/won't be able to survive outside the womb anyway? They just forced a now single father so take on the responsibility of a mentally challenged child, or will they then take her off life support?
Like others in here, as a mother, I would want my child to have a chance though so I can't get up in arms about this.
Yeah, that is why I think the father should have been able to make the decision to end life support. Like any parent when they find out there is something wrong with the fetus, they have the option to terminate if they don't think they can handle those disabilities. I don't see why this is different.
This whole situation sucks hard. The father wants to terminate the life support because he thinks mom was without oxygen for at least an hour.
They have a 15 month old son and I just can't imagine how hard it is going to be if baby #2 was born healthy.
Even if baby makes it to viability-baby will probably be extremely premature and that doesn't even take into account if baby was impacted by low oxygen levels in utero.
I'm so sad about the whole situation. I can't even imagine how hard it is for everyone involved.
The problem is with the law (like I think was said in the second post). Even if she had gone on a news broadcast and told the entire world she's want to be taken off life support, the law still says she can't.
What I would do, or what you would do, is totally irrelevant because ultimately your family isn't making the decision, the law is. That's the real problem.
Regardless of anyone else's personal views on this, it should 100% be up to her husband. It makes me sick thinking about my husband being in this situation. My father was on life support for 3 months before my mother finally let him go, and it was the hardest thing in my life I've ever gone through. I really can't imagine adding this into all the emotions that go on in that situation.
“There are two kinds of people I don't trust: people who don't drink and people who collect stickers.”
Even if you personally would want to remain on life support to give your baby a shot and even if being pregnant would change your feelings about being kept in a vegetative state... Do you feel that this should be legislated?
Those who knew her best said she would not want this. Those who knew her best said this would be against her wishes and wanted to terminate care at 14 weeks. I'm sure that wasn't a fun thing to ask for. This is their wife/child and she's carrying their child/granddaughter. They wanted to let her go, because she is already dead.
But the law interfered and now they've got to spend each day in limbo.
I feel so sad for them. Of course her husband sits with her. She's his wife. He loves her. And it must hurt to know this is not what she would want, and he can't do a thing.
The problem is with the law (like I think was said in the second post). Even if she had gone on a news broadcast and told the entire world she's want to be taken off life support, the law still says she can't.
What I would do, or what you would do, is totally irrelevant because ultimately your family isn't making the decision, the law is. That's the real problem.
Don't bring in logic! It takes away the ability to debate.
Yes, the law is stupid and fucked. I hate that the rights of the fetus supersede the rights of the woman. It's insane.
I can't get the ticker to work, but I have two sons:
The law was not written for this case, obviously, but it impacts it in a big way. Would any of your feelings change if the baby was viable? What if this had happened at 32 weeks, and they planned to wait it out to 36. Even at 32 weeks, the chance of survival is great. You cannot terminate a pregnancy that late in the game. It is unfortunate that it has impacted this family. I know my feelings on things and my stance on issues. I still can't say what I would do if I or a member of my family were in this situation.
The law was not written for this case, obviously, but it impacts it in a big way. Would any of your feelings change if the baby was viable? What if this had happened at 32 weeks, and they planned to wait it out to 36. Even at 32 weeks, the chance of survival is great. You cannot terminate a pregnancy that late in the game. It is unfortunate that it has impacted this family. I know my feelings on things and my stance on issues. I still can't say what I would do if I or a member of my family were in this situation.
I think my feelings would change if it were later in the pregnancy.
It's sick to think that this could go on until the baby is full term, then what? At 30some weeks the court rules the family was right THEN they should terminate a practically fully grown baby?
Is it possible for the family to move her to one of the states that doesn't uphold this law and take her off life support?!
The law was not written for this case, obviously, but it impacts it in a big way. Would any of your feelings change if the baby was viable? What if this had happened at 32 weeks, and they planned to wait it out to 36. Even at 32 weeks, the chance of survival is great. You cannot terminate a pregnancy that late in the game. It is unfortunate that it has impacted this family. I know my feelings on things and my stance on issues. I still can't say what I would do if I or a member of my family were in this situation.
No, my feelings would not change. The government should stay out of this decision.
I can't get the ticker to work, but I have two sons:
I don't really feel like this should be legislated period, regardless of age of fetus.
Personally, I think there is a difference between a 14 week fetus (and waiting to see what happens, making the family wait in this weird limbo for ages to see if the fetus will even survive, and then what sort of medical issues the child will have) and a 28, 32, 36, etc., week fetus. That child has a good chance of survival, and I would assume that they could deliver the baby right away. Unless of course the family wanted to keep the woman on life support to try and keep the baby in a bit longer.
But, there are too many questions at 14 weeks, and it just seems so awful to keep this family in limbo forever against their wishes.
So what happens if they do determine that the baby isn't maturing like it should at 22-24 weeks or there WILL be complications later down the road? Does the hospital say "Oh well, abort mission. This "hypothesis" didn't turn out like we thought it would." Do they, then, decide to terminate both lives?
Here's the thing, I totally understand the thought process of "if it were my child I'd want them to have a chance". However, it's out of the mother's hands because, well, she's not alive. I know this sounds harsh but it isn't up to her anymore.
I get that the health of the fetus is intriguing and I'm interested to see how it turns out but I don't understand why its viability is even an issue. The mother is dead and the father wants to abort it. Now he's being forced by the state to endure his family's tragedy even longer. In all likelihood, the baby is going to be born and not be able to survive outside of the womb or have some major disabilities. I think it's disgusting for the state to put this woman's family through this.
@krptcmschfmkr128 I kind of see your point. However, if it was an actual child on life support, there would be a medical diagnosis on said child. Here, there is the unknown. For me, that's the sticking point. This child could be born with little to no issues. It could lead a long, healthy happy life.
If you wish to experiment by depriving your 14 week old fetus of oxygen for an hour to see if it's born with little to no issues, have at it (but, you know, don't). It's not the role of the state to do it for this family.
They are presenting him with an impossible scenario should this fetus be born with cognitive or physical disabilities. They sure as fuck better be picking up the check for this child's entire life.
Correction: The pro-life asshole legislators in Texas who voted for this bill should be picking up the check for this child's entire life.
@krptcmschfmkr128 I kind of see your point. However, if it was an actual child on life support, there would be a medical diagnosis on said child. Here, there is the unknown. For me, that's the sticking point. This child could be born with little to no issues. It could lead a long, healthy happy life.
Re: Have we discussed? Brain dead pregnant mother
@chickenonsunday I wonder about your first point too. I know, given the choice, lots of people would want the baby. I have read almost opposite stories of people fighting to keep them on support for the baby. It would be a miracle, as @uconnhuskie007 said.
The bolded, but I agree this is such a tricky thing.
If the baby was a "wanted" baby (which I assume he/she is or was), wouldn't this woman's parents want to give the baby a shot?
It's a really, really tough call though.
BFP 1- EDD 2/09/11 Missed MC DX @11 weeks D&C- 7/25/10 BFP 2- EDD 12/22/11 Natural MC @ 5w 2d BFP 3- EDD 1/25/12 DD Josephine born 1/16/12
Read more here: https://www.star-telegram.com/2014/01/09/5473242/family-of-pregnant-brain-dead.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy
They have a 15 month old son and I just can't imagine how hard it is going to be if baby #2 was born healthy.
Even if baby makes it to viability-baby will probably be extremely premature and that doesn't even take into account if baby was impacted by low oxygen levels in utero.
I'm so sad about the whole situation. I can't even imagine how hard it is for everyone involved.
I can't get the ticker to work, but I have two sons:
Baby RJ, born 1/25/2014
Formerly Twilightmv
“There are two kinds of people I don't trust: people who don't drink and people who collect stickers.”
-Chelsea Handler
Those who knew her best said she would not want this. Those who knew her best said this would be against her wishes and wanted to terminate care at 14 weeks. I'm sure that wasn't a fun thing to ask for. This is their wife/child and she's carrying their child/granddaughter. They wanted to let her go, because she is already dead.
But the law interfered and now they've got to spend each day in limbo.
I feel so sad for them. Of course her husband sits with her. She's his wife. He loves her. And it must hurt to know this is not what she would want, and he can't do a thing.
Yes, the law is stupid and fucked. I hate that the rights of the fetus supersede the rights of the woman. It's insane.
I can't get the ticker to work, but I have two sons:
Baby RJ, born 1/25/2014
Formerly Twilightmv
I can't get the ticker to work, but I have two sons:
Baby RJ, born 1/25/2014
Formerly Twilightmv
Personally, I think there is a difference between a 14 week fetus (and waiting to see what happens, making the family wait in this weird limbo for ages to see if the fetus will even survive, and then what sort of medical issues the child will have) and a 28, 32, 36, etc., week fetus. That child has a good chance of survival, and I would assume that they could deliver the baby right away. Unless of course the family wanted to keep the woman on life support to try and keep the baby in a bit longer.
But, there are too many questions at 14 weeks, and it just seems so awful to keep this family in limbo forever against their wishes.
They are presenting him with an impossible scenario should this fetus be born with cognitive or physical disabilities. They sure as fuck better be picking up the check for this child's entire life.
Correction: The pro-life asshole legislators in Texas who voted for this bill should be picking up the check for this child's entire life.