November 2011 Moms
S/O Abortion post: using science to TTC thoughts
I personally used IUI and IVF to get pregnant (only IVF worked). But I know there are opinions and feelings (and I respect them) that when it involves using science then "it wasn't meant to be".
Personally, I thought it was interesting when my IVF Doctor told me about a certain company in my area that doesn't cover using fertility treatments at all because they are a very religious company that feels like if God didn't make it work on its own, then it's best left alone and wasn't meant to be.
NOT trying to start a beef on the board, but I think the topic of pro or against aboration comes up more than this topic on using fertility treatments, so I just wanted to see other people's opinions and thoughts on the matter in a respectful way.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: S/O Abortion post: using science to TTC thoughts
I believe that every woman deserves the right to have a child but due to certain health issues many may not. I am pro science and believe that if it allows a woman to have a child then go for it. I think that science has highly improved our lives today and if we can use it why not, just dont abuse it.
I think that using science like that is great but in limitation and regulation as well. For example octo-mom. I think that that doctor was wrong in doing what he did to her especially since many claim she is not mentally stable to do what she does (I dont know the facts of the story so feel free to correct me if I am wrong).
In my eyes this procedure isnt any more wrong or right than curing cancer with medicine, doing kidney transplants, helping AIDS victims etc. If the modern medicine allowed it, go for it.
I heard this from someone a couple weeks ago and have to say, I agree emphatically. God gave us the tools to figure out IUI and IVF. So he must have meant it to be.
Plenty more thoughts, but I don't want to hijack the thread...
I don't think anyone can or should judge using science unless they have personally been in a position where it was the only possible way to get pregnant. It makes me so mad to hear people (who are pregnant or have kids) say "I would never do that". Well, luckily for you, you didn't have to, but you don't know how you would feel if you tried without success to get pregnant for years.
I have not been through any type of fertility treatment and I don't know what I would do, but I certainly won't judge someone who had to make those tough decisions.
DD february 2010 | DS october 2011
*please excuse my typos, bumping from my iphone*
I wouldn't tell someone diagnosed with cancer their life just wasn't meant to be. So why would I tell someone with PCOS that it wasn't meant to be?
I do not see a difference between cancer treatment and IF treatment. In both instances technology is changing what "God's plan" would have been in its absence.
Sorry for the confusion. Really just thoughts on the process or manipulation of the process as well. My curiousity really just stemmed from what my doctor had told me about that company. Since I personally never gave a 2nd thought to using science to TTC (even before it was the option I ended up using), I thought it was interesting to hear a completely "against" opinion and just really never thought of it. And then I just was curious what others though. But, I'm not flaming anyone for their opinions and thoughts (and hope others won't on here as well); just trying to see other opinions and other sides of the fence (so to speak).
I personally have no issue with IVF and other fertility treatments. I do not believe that whether or not you can conceive a child has anything to do with God. To that same effect, I don't believe in trusting in God to give you a child when the time is right. When my friend got pregnant unintentionally, she said I guess God decided now is the time to give us a child even though we aren't ready. I'm sorry. It doesn't work like that. You and your husband were having unprotected sex on a regular basis. Its like playing Russian roulette with sperm.. it was bound to happen.
There are plenty of wonderful people who would be excellent parents and they can't have children without the help of science. Yet, there are the women who all they has to do is look at a man and they get pregnant. (Not really possible, but you get my point.)
If my husband and I were unable to conceive on our own, I absolutely would have sought out fertility treatments.
I am very pro-science! Since I don't actually believe in God, I can't really discuss God's will. It's not a concept I can logically understand.
I hope that every person on this planet who would like to carry a baby has that opportunity, whether it's "God's will" or science, or any combination thereof.
There was a thread on another board (TIP, maybe?) from a woman whose ILs were very much against IVF and other fertility treatments. According to her ILs, children conceived through such methods were not "conceived through love."
My opinion is that if you're willing to subject your body to fertility treatments (have not been through them myself, but what I've heard about and read is that they are ROUGH on your body, mentally and physically), then that child is most definitely conceived through love!
I'm not religious at all, but I like the idea that God gave humans the skill to find ways around the body's limitations.
This could just be a typo but are you saying that you were worried that you wouldn't get pregnant after one cycle?
I am of the thought process: if it wasn't in God's plan to use those proceedures, then why did he allow man to create them?
With that aside, I have no issues with the science and we would have explored it had we needed help to conceive. I think that anyone willing to go through that process more than deserves a chance at being a parent. I know a few couples turning to "science" to help them and I wish them nothing but the best of luck and lots of T's and P's.
~Working Mom~Breastfeeding Mom~Cloth Diapering Mom~BLW Mom~
Blog - No Longer on the DL ~ The Man Cave
Shawn and Larissa
LO #1 - Took 2 years and 2 IVFs ~ DX - severe MFI mild PCOS homozygous MTHFR (a1298c)
LO #2 - TTC 7 months, surprise spontaneous BFP!
I didn't realize that people felt so strongly about using ART to conceive until one morning listening to a radio show on my drive to work...
The caller was asking people if it was wrong of her to not go to her BFF's baby shower b/c the child was conceived via IVF. In her eyes this child was not created by God and she wasn't recognizing that it was a legitimate pregnancy.
Thank goodness everyone who called in to respond was appalled by her opinion but it showed me that there are ppl out there who feel this way.
This was before DH and I started to TTC. We eventually TTC for a year (almost having to do our first IUI in April) before this little blessing happened. This person haunted me throughout the whole TTC process and was the only reason I even thought to question if it was morally wrong.
I am very pro science! Every woman should be able to have a baby.
Diagnosed PCOS 2/07, TTC #1 since 8/09
11/10 - Clomid Round 1 = BFN
12/10 - Clomid Round 2 = BFN
1/11 - Voluntary Break = BFN (duh)
2/11 - Clomid Round 3 = BFN
3/11 - Femara + IUI = BFP * Beta#1=56 * Beta#2=266
*Cautiously expecting baby girls on November 28, 2011*
I have no objection to the use of fertility treatments. Frankly, I don't think it's any of my business how another couple conceived. Or anyone else's business, for that matter.
This kind of disgusted me. I'm glad to know people called in and disagreed with her. I would ask her if when someone is raped and gets pregnant if that was created by God. The sperm and egg meet, just because they don't meet inside the woman's body doesn't mean they didn't meet just like they're supposed to.
I also wonder how she could consider this person a friend if she couldn't find the compassion to see what that person went through to get pregnant. Does she not realize the months of tears, sweat and blood that IF people go through to get to that position?
I don't believe in god, so I don't believe there is some grand plan as to why certain couples struggle to get pregnant. There are obviously issues that are causing any given couple's infertility and if we can overcome those with science/technology, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't.
At the same time, while reproducing is essential and most people want to have a biological child (so it's an important cause), there are so many life threatening diseases out there that need to be cured. I'm not sure if our research dollars are best spent on reproductive technologies.
All that said, I think if DH and I had struggled with secondary infertility, I might have just taken it as a sign from nature that I couldn't handle another child. I was sort of wavering on the decision, so it would have been a sort of cop out for me. Primary infertility...I think we would have gone through with whatever treatments were necessary (that we could afford).
ETA: my second paragraph above could probably cause some hurt feelings. I didn't mean to offend. IF is a terrible experience for couples to go through, not something to be taken lightly. I'm not sure how one would weigh which is more important...curing cancer (or any other disease) or "curing" IF. I guess it comes down to quality of life.
It completely disgusted me too...I think one of the callers accused her of not being a real friend and she tried to argue this. It is possible that the friend who used IVF wasn't aware of her faux friend's views on the subject.
I am pro-science on all aspects of the world, this one included...however I get why the original poster was wondering.
My 80 yr old grandma is Catholic and in 1966 her church was preaching against birth control, pills or otherwise, because if God wanted you to have children you should. However, by this point she had 8 children after 9 pregnancies and said "God will understand that she just couldn't handle anymore"...just because people are religious doesn't mean they can't apply common sense and I would like to think the crazy "anti-science" are the exception not the rule.
I'm not religious, but I will put in my 2 cents.
I'm all for using science to provide opportunities to people who would not otherwise have them....i.e. IVF, in-utero sugary for spinal bifida, cancer treatment. However, it gets a little hazy for me when science is used simply to make life easier (i.e. plastic surgery, designer babies [not sure if this one is real yet or if I am referencing a L & O: SVU episode). I also believe it's a double-edged sword. "Scientific advancement" can be blamed for many of the issues that cause women difficulty with conceiving-- pesticides, hormones in food, exposure to toxins, each of these connect to issues of infertility, and I am betting even more than we (and the scientific community) realize. Not that this is the case for every woman....
It goes beyond pregnancy too, our desires to have access to food year round that are are not in season or local to our environment was an impetus for the use of pesticides and genetically modified foods, as well as increased food costs because of transportation.
So, in conclusion, I am thankful that there's opportunity for families to start because of science, the rest is just a ramble which I am sure will get me labeled as "extra crunchy." ;-)
I believe in God, and I believe in science.
Did anyone see this article that came out this week? : https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/10/my-take-catholic-church-should-reverse-ivf-opposition/
I was raised Catholic (although I no longer practice) and it disgusts me that the Catholic church cannot see that ART is necessary and a wonderful gift given to us, by God.
I am beyond thankful that we conceived on our own, but given my diagnosis and labs, we shouldn't have been. We were researching and hoping a clinic would allow us to do IVF since my FSH was so high.
I am so sad to think if we did not get pregnant, that somehow, God would not want us to have children? That seems wrong to me.
DS born via unplanned C-section at 40w6d
If I were in church right now, I'd yell "Can I get an 'AMEN!' from all my IF treatment girls!!!" Thanks for the chuckle. If anyone has been through it or close to someone who's been through it, "ROUGH" is about the one word that can some it up!
Even before TTC I always was thankful that in today's society there are a lot of fertility treatment options out there. I agree w/ PP that they are abused in situations like octo-mom.
It never even occurred to me that certain religions might take a stance against fertility treatment - it seems like they are all about "no BC, no sex until marriage, no abortion", etc. So it was really surprising to hear that the line is drawn somewhere by some people when it comes to conception.
I am a serial blog lurker and the first time I realized that some people felt this way was when I came across an IF blog where the individual had made a tough decision for herself that she would not pursue IVF for religious reasons. It was really heartbreaking and inspirational at the same time to read about her feelings and struggle.
I had a (crazy) roommate freshman yr of college who thought that adoption was wrong because God didn't intend for that couple to have children..... yet she was a lab science major and wanted to go into research to cure HIV-- go figure.
I think there are enough people and opinions out there to offend everyone, nothing like the internet for letting us access them.
I think it's every womans decision whether they want to go through IVF or similar treatments or not. Sometimes a little help is needed.I think it's similar to people getting medical help when they are sick in order to get better, sometimes you need a little assistance and there is nothing wrong with that. At least a woman who goes through the extra pain and drama of IVF really wants that child compared to some who it just accidentally happened to that never wanted a child and still doesn't after giving birth. I conceived naturally but I have friends who would never have their amazing children without help and I don't feel they should be denied their children because they couldn't conceive without help. It's kinda like saying well you shouldn't adopt if you can't conceive because you aren't supposed to have children and that would be terribly wrong.
On the abortion issue, I used to be pro choice but since getting pregnant it's been a lot harder to feel that way. The way I see it my baby was a baby the day I took that pregnancy test and I could never take that life. However I understand that sometimes there are circumstances that would make a woman feel that abortion is her only option and I don't feel I should judge them unless they are not taking precautions and constantly having abortions, then it's time for some birth control...
I have so thoroughly enjoyed reading all these posts and the abortion thread. It is great to get so many different viewpoints, whether I agree with them or not. So with that I'll throw my two cents in here as well. DH and I had discussed before marriage what we would do about children and both of us felt that IF treatments would not be an option, financially or emotionally. We are both very supportive of adoption and still plan on adopting someday. Anyway, even though IVF and all that was not going to be an option for us, I know a few people who have used it. All three couples are in stable marriages, have established careers and are truly ready to be parents. One couple had twins, another is currently pg with a singleton, and the third couple have not had any success. They have spent thousands of dollars TTC - shots, pills, IVF, all of it. On one had I see the point, but on the other I don't. I think IF treatments get a bad rap from cases like Octomom. I think we all agree she is a trainwreck and those children should not have been concieved. One bad apple spoiled the bunch. I know she is the exception to the rule, but it makes me wonder how many other unstable people like her are out there doing it too, you know?
I find the religion argument very interesting. We are of what you would call a conservative faith and I have never heard or read anything against using IF treatments. I'm actually going to do some research into this, so thanks for making my brain gears turn!
I have no religious or moral problems with using medical science to get pregnant, but I do think not enough people consider adoption when they can't conceive on their own.
Of course adoption has its own issues (it can be very expensive, that's one of the main problems). But I wish more people would not jump straight to fertility drugs and IVF and would instead seriously think about adopting.
On the other hand, we didn't have trouble getting pregnant, and if we did I might feel differently about this issue entirely.
It's a boy! -- EDD 11.17.11
Back in the USA...for now...
This is a common opinion of people who haven't gone through infertility and is something that many people without the experience think would be an easy thing to do. Adoption is much more expensive than ART so many people with IF try to use medical treatment before considering adoption.
You also have to really try and put yourself in that position and think that if you and YH were not able to get pregnant on your own, would you really just go right to persuing adoption? Some people need help to ovulate, some men have issues with their sperm. The technologies have been created for a reason and adoption is not for everyone.
I love my husband so much and would have done whatever it took to give him a biological child.
Myth: Why don't you just forget it and adopt? After all, there are so many babies out there who need homes!
Fact: For many, adoption is a happy resolution to infertility. However, most people explore medical treatment for infertility prior to considering adoption. In addition, traditional adoption options have changed, and adoption can be more costly and time-consuming than expected. It is, however, still possible to adopt the healthy baby of your dreams. There are also many older children and children with special needs available for adoption.
This is from RESOLVE https://www.resolve.org/support-and-services/for-family--friends/myths-and-facts.html
This is good advice from the Infertility Etiquette page https://www.resolve.org/support-and-services/for-family--friends/infertility-etiquette.html