Blended Families

Sheesh it hasn't even been 24 hours

Thank you everyone for your kind words yesterday.  After the airport I went to Crossfit and then slept the remainder of the day.  It felt nice  :)

The kids made it out there ok and they called me when they landed. They both said the flight was fine and that they found DC easily.  As I'm talking to DD I hear, "L stop it!".  L is DC's son who is 5, and everytime DD is out there he's awful to her.  Yes, I will use the term brat here because it genuinely applies.  DC and SM don't discipline him and DD comes home from every visit with bite marks and bruises from him.  When I've asked DC about it he just tells me to mind my own business and says DD is exaggerating.  Thankfully the kids are only out there once a year, I can't imagine how bad it would be if they saw DC EOWE.

Last night DD called and was crying.  She said L punched her in the face and bit her arm because she wouldn't play a game with him.  I told her she needs to talk to DC about this because there's nothing I can do.  She tells me, "I told him but he just yelled at me for not playing with L".  While we're on the phone I get a picture message from DS of the bite marks and the bruising/swelling of DD's eye, and then a text from him asking if he can call the police.  I honestly have no idea what I should have told him, but I just told him to watch out for DD and protect her if needed.

It breaks my heart when I get these calls from her.  There is absolutely nothing I can do.  If DC lived within driving distance I would go pick up the kids in a heartbeat and risk contempt charges.  I'm glad DS is concerned and wants to protect DD, but I'm not sure calling the police or CPS would do anything here.  

Can it please be August 8th now? 

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«1

Re: Sheesh it hasn't even been 24 hours

  • call cps. tell ds to call the cops. it will continue and escalate until someone stops it.
  • I'm on board with telling your son to call the cops if he feels his sister is in danger. I mean, I know L is 5, but it's DC's responsibility to protect ALL of his children.

    The only concern I have is, what if it gets worse after cops are called and your kids have to stay there.
  • image riabiron:
    call cps. tell ds to call the cops. it will continue and escalate until someone stops it.

    I guess I'm confused how that works.  L is only 5, wouldn't CPS chalk it up to sibling fighting?  Yes DC should be doing more to stop it, but what will CPS really do?  Especially when the kids are in another State?

    I just hate that I can't do anything from here.  And I hate that DC doesn't discipline his child.

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  • God bless your boy for wanting to protect his sister. I don't know whether it's wonderful that he feels that way or terrible that he has to. 

    I do think you could call CPS. Your child is getting punched a bitten, and clearly the other adults in the house are not going to protect her. CPS might not do anything, but that's ultimately their call. If you do call, is there anything they can do to make sure the d-bag doesn't take your kids' phones away?

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  • image jobalchak:

    image riabiron:
    call cps. tell ds to call the cops. it will continue and escalate until someone stops it.

    I guess I'm confused how that works.  L is only 5, wouldn't CPS chalk it up to sibling fighting?  Yes DC should be doing more to stop it, but what will CPS really do?  Especially when the kids are in another State?

    I just hate that I can't do anything from here.  And I hate that DC doesn't discipline his child.



    I don't know that CPS can or will do anything but at least it would be documented.

    I still say if it happens again, your son should call the cops and maybe let them decide how to document or file with CPS and again, it's documentation since DC is on a "trial" from last years mess.

    Ugh, I'm so sorry for you. I couldn't deal with it.
  • oh JFC Jo I am SO sorry this is happening! Confront DC about it. If he pulls a stunt like last year, then he hung himself as far as the courts are concerned.  You shouldn't be scared to protect your child! Get in touch with DS before you confront DC and tell him you are going to talk to dad, make sure he has a plan in place in case DC pulls a stunt like last year.  This is awful. just awful :(
                           
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  • Oh my god, what a mess. I guess if it happens again tell DS to call the police. He would have the pics and texts to you of this time too. Make sure to tell DS to keep them on the phone. I'm so sorry your kids have to go through that. Thank god its only once a year but still. I hope your DS isn't put in the situation to have to seriously protect his sister, but it speaks to the mother you are that he will.
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  • image fellesferie:

    God bless your boy for wanting to protect his sister. I don't know whether it's wonderful that he feels that way or terrible that he has to. 

    I do think you could call CPS. Your child is getting punched a bitten, and clearly the other adults in the house are not going to protect her. CPS might not do anything, but that's ultimately their call. If you do call, is there anything they can do to make sure the d-bag doesn't take your kids' phones away?

    Seriously, my son is pretty mean to his sister.  But only he is allowed to be mean to her apparently....

    The kids each have a phone with them and then DS has his old phone hiding in his backpack.  Plus the Judge told DC at the hearing that the phones are not to be taken away from the kids except at bedtime.  Violation of that will result in supervised visits in CA.

    And as bad as this sounds, DS is bigger and taller than DC now.  DS has made it very clear that he is not scared of DC and won't let what happened last year happen to him again.  His words: "I refuse to let him make me feel helpless and scared".  And DS is incredibly angry about being out there.  I am actually worried about DC provoking DS and DS hitting him.  I'm telling you, that 14 year old has 8 years of anger and hate pent up. 

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  • image jobalchak:
    image Banana44:

    I think the situation is not best for your children, but I also think involving police or CPS is an abuse of the system.

    Is there an actual assault to report to police?  what is the crime?  Police are first responders, they are not counselors, babysitters, or the 5 year olds parents.  

    Your children are much older than the 5 year old and although I agree they should be able to tell DC and he should parent the 5 yo - that isn't happening, so if I were you, I would arm my children with parenting methods.  

    I'm sorry L, I don't want to play with you and if you bite me, I'm not going to play with you tomorrow either.  My DD is 4 and my SS is 10 and SS handles DD very well (although DD would never bite her brother she has hit him).  I admit, I parent so my SS has someone to complain to.  

    Like I said it sucks for your kids to be unhappy at their father's but I don't think this is a police situation.  Now if DC bit DD or hit DD then yes - by all means call CPS and the police - but not for sibling conflict. 

    And I do know your history from last year - I'm not writing this as a newcomer - but honestly, think about what the police are for - is this a police situation? 

    I think the real problem is that DC is allowing this behavior to continue.  If DD tries to leave the room or refuses to play with L then she gets reprimanded by DC.  As DD and DS have explained to me, they are expected to entertain L so that DC can watch TV, play video games, etc.  

    I agree that this is not a police matter, but I'm wondering if CPS should be involved because DC isn't protecting his other children from this child.  He isn't exercising any sort of care for DD's welfare.  I think there is a real problem when the 10 year old is being left to "babysit" a 5 year old and is not allowed to remove herself from the situation when he bites or hits her.  What parenting tips can I really give to her?  I tell her to leave the room and refuse to play with him if he's mean to her, and then he bites and hits her.  When she tries to walk away from him and tell DC, she gets yelled at by DC for not doing what the 5 year old wants and basically condones the 5 year old biting her and hitting her.  What recourse does she really have here? 

    I totally disagree with Banana.  If the noticeable (to a photograph taken by a pre-teen) bite mark had occurred by another adult, it is an abuse charge, CORRECT?

    So JOB - here is what you are going to do.  

    1) Call your lawyer and ask him/her what your recourse is, given that you already have physical documentation that it is not safe for the children.  

    2) Have your son take more pictures of the first bite/facial bruise - now that the bruising has set in. 

    3) as soon as the next incident happens (and unfortunately it will), have your son take pictures again and send them.

    4) Call the non-emergency phone number of DC's local police department and ask for a welfare check up.  Explain that your older son has now sent pictures of a second incident where your DD has bite marks and bruises.  WHile your son is saying that it was done by the 5 yo younger stepbrother, you are concerned that they might actually be left alone because how can a child do that much damage unless there was no supervision.

    Sure you are stretching teh truth.  But your daughter should not have bruises because her biodouchefather cannot be bothered to supervise properly.  

    If they do not follow through, then call Social Services and say the same thing.  Again, stress that you are concerned with the amount or lack of supervision (do not actually say you think they were left alone because that goes into lying) because there is now way a 5 yo should be biting a 10 yo like that...more than once...unless something is wrong there. 

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  • At the very best your Ex will be on notice to watch/control his brat for the rest of the visit.  At the least, he will try to take the phones away...which is totally a violation of the court order.  

    And the minute you cannot contact your kids, you call the cops again saying that you called them earlier regarding suspected negligence and now you cannot get in contact with them...and you are worried.

    All that will do is bolster your case.  

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  • image wendilea:
    I'm sorry honey.  I don't know that there's a good answer here.  Keep the documentation for the next time you go to court, to show that DC is not properly caring for your kids when he has them.  I wouldn't do anything to provoke him while they're there, considering the history.  Tell DD to bite the little sh!t back.
    100% my thought.
  • image Ilumine:
    image jobalchak:
    image Banana44:

    I think the situation is not best for your children, but I also think involving police or CPS is an abuse of the system.

    Is there an actual assault to report to police?  what is the crime?  Police are first responders, they are not counselors, babysitters, or the 5 year olds parents.  

    Your children are much older than the 5 year old and although I agree they should be able to tell DC and he should parent the 5 yo - that isn't happening, so if I were you, I would arm my children with parenting methods.  

    I'm sorry L, I don't want to play with you and if you bite me, I'm not going to play with you tomorrow either.  My DD is 4 and my SS is 10 and SS handles DD very well (although DD would never bite her brother she has hit him).  I admit, I parent so my SS has someone to complain to.  

    Like I said it sucks for your kids to be unhappy at their father's but I don't think this is a police situation.  Now if DC bit DD or hit DD then yes - by all means call CPS and the police - but not for sibling conflict. 

    And I do know your history from last year - I'm not writing this as a newcomer - but honestly, think about what the police are for - is this a police situation? 

    I think the real problem is that DC is allowing this behavior to continue.  If DD tries to leave the room or refuses to play with L then she gets reprimanded by DC.  As DD and DS have explained to me, they are expected to entertain L so that DC can watch TV, play video games, etc.  

    I agree that this is not a police matter, but I'm wondering if CPS should be involved because DC isn't protecting his other children from this child.  He isn't exercising any sort of care for DD's welfare.  I think there is a real problem when the 10 year old is being left to "babysit" a 5 year old and is not allowed to remove herself from the situation when he bites or hits her.  What parenting tips can I really give to her?  I tell her to leave the room and refuse to play with him if he's mean to her, and then he bites and hits her.  When she tries to walk away from him and tell DC, she gets yelled at by DC for not doing what the 5 year old wants and basically condones the 5 year old biting her and hitting her.  What recourse does she really have here? 

    I totally disagree with Banana.  If the noticeable (to a photograph taken by a pre-teen) bite mark had occurred by another adult, it is an abuse charge, CORRECT?

    So JOB - here is what you are going to do.  

    1) Call your lawyer and ask him/her what your recourse is, given that you already have physical documentation that it is not safe for the children.  

    2) Have your son take more pictures of the first bite/facial bruise - now that the bruising has set in. 

    3) as soon as the next incident happens (and unfortunately it will), have your son take pictures again and send them.

    4) Call the non-emergency phone number of DC's local police department and ask for a welfare check up.  Explain that your older son has now sent pictures of a second incident where your DD has bite marks and bruises.  WHile your son is saying that it was done by the 5 yo younger stepbrother, you are concerned that they might actually be left alone because how can a child do that much damage unless there was no supervision.

    Sure you are stretching teh truth.  But your daughter should not have bruises because her biodouchefather cannot be bothered to supervise properly.  

    If they do not follow through, then call Social Services and say the same thing.  Again, stress that you are concerned with the amount or lack of supervision (do not actually say you think they were left alone because that goes into lying) because there is now way a 5 yo should be biting a 10 yo like that...more than once...unless something is wrong there. 

     

    This all makes total sense.  I already spoke with my attorney and I could practically hear him roll his eyes as he said, "And this is why we wanted supervised visitation".  I emailed him the pictures DS sent me, and I'm waiting to hear from DS and DD today.  I text them both this morning and said, "Good morning, I hope you guys are having fun out there.  Are you feeling better after you've had some sleep?" and haven't heard back yet.  I tried to keep the text as neutral as possible so that it can't be construed as me leading them or anything.  Now all I can do is wait.

     I really hope this is a one time occurrence while they're visiting.  I really hope that DC doesn't let L continue this behavior.  I really hope that L is just overly excited that DD and DS are there and that's why he's such a brat.  I also really hope I don't have to use the emergency money we have set aside for me to fly out there and reign hell on DC if he tries to hide the kids again.  Thankfully the CO spells out that the phones are not to be taken away, so the police out there can actually do something this time around.

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  • image wendilea:
    I'm sorry honey.  I don't know that there's a good answer here.  Keep the documentation for the next time you go to court, to show that DC is not properly caring for your kids when he has them.  I wouldn't do anything to provoke him while they're there, considering the history.  Tell DD to bite the little sh!t back.

    Right?!  Ugh.


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  • image Ilumine:
    image jobalchak:
    image Banana44:

    I think the situation is not best for your children, but I also think involving police or CPS is an abuse of the system.

    Is there an actual assault to report to police?  what is the crime?  Police are first responders, they are not counselors, babysitters, or the 5 year olds parents.  

    Your children are much older than the 5 year old and although I agree they should be able to tell DC and he should parent the 5 yo - that isn't happening, so if I were you, I would arm my children with parenting methods.  

    I'm sorry L, I don't want to play with you and if you bite me, I'm not going to play with you tomorrow either.  My DD is 4 and my SS is 10 and SS handles DD very well (although DD would never bite her brother she has hit him).  I admit, I parent so my SS has someone to complain to.  

    Like I said it sucks for your kids to be unhappy at their father's but I don't think this is a police situation.  Now if DC bit DD or hit DD then yes - by all means call CPS and the police - but not for sibling conflict. 

    And I do know your history from last year - I'm not writing this as a newcomer - but honestly, think about what the police are for - is this a police situation? 

    I think the real problem is that DC is allowing this behavior to continue.  If DD tries to leave the room or refuses to play with L then she gets reprimanded by DC.  As DD and DS have explained to me, they are expected to entertain L so that DC can watch TV, play video games, etc.  

    I agree that this is not a police matter, but I'm wondering if CPS should be involved because DC isn't protecting his other children from this child.  He isn't exercising any sort of care for DD's welfare.  I think there is a real problem when the 10 year old is being left to "babysit" a 5 year old and is not allowed to remove herself from the situation when he bites or hits her.  What parenting tips can I really give to her?  I tell her to leave the room and refuse to play with him if he's mean to her, and then he bites and hits her.  When she tries to walk away from him and tell DC, she gets yelled at by DC for not doing what the 5 year old wants and basically condones the 5 year old biting her and hitting her.  What recourse does she really have here? 

    I totally disagree with Banana.  If the noticeable (to a photograph taken by a pre-teen) bite mark had occurred by another adult, it is an abuse charge, CORRECT?

    So JOB - here is what you are going to do.  

    1) Call your lawyer and ask him/her what your recourse is, given that you already have physical documentation that it is not safe for the children.  

    2) Have your son take more pictures of the first bite/facial bruise - now that the bruising has set in. 

    3) as soon as the next incident happens (and unfortunately it will), have your son take pictures again and send them.

    4) Call the non-emergency phone number of DC's local police department and ask for a welfare check up.  Explain that your older son has now sent pictures of a second incident where your DD has bite marks and bruises.  WHile your son is saying that it was done by the 5 yo younger stepbrother, you are concerned that they might actually be left alone because how can a child do that much damage unless there was no supervision.

    Sure you are stretching teh truth.  But your daughter should not have bruises because her biodouchefather cannot be bothered to supervise properly.  

    If they do not follow through, then call Social Services and say the same thing.  Again, stress that you are concerned with the amount or lack of supervision (do not actually say you think they were left alone because that goes into lying) because there is now way a 5 yo should be biting a 10 yo like that...more than once...unless something is wrong there. 

    Legally speaking, unless an adult bit me in front of a police officer then no - it is not assault.  Abuse (unless child or spousal is not a crimes code).

    Just because you can see a bite mark or a bruise does not equate abuse or assault.  I have bruises all over my legs right now because I was recently out sailing - I could take a picture and say I was abused - this is why a police officer needs to witness an altercation for an assault charge.

    Also, most police departments do not have non-emergency numbers.  All calls are sent through a 911 answering point, which is normally undermanned and handling an entire county.

    There is absolutely no crimes code for a 5 year old biting his older sister.  It is abuse of a system to call the police for something like this.

    If the DC won't parent than the children need to be taught how to handle it - and honestly, Wendi's idea is great - bite him back (just don't break skin - he is only 5 and it is not his fault who his parents are). 

  • I'm not sure I understand the definitions of assault being used here. Assault, by legal definition, is threat of harm. Compared to battery, which is actual harm.  

    The definitions of assault and battery are not limited to adults--a child can assault or batter another child. A child can assault or batter an adult. 

    I would agree that this is not a police/emergency matter. But I think a call to CPS and/or the police non-emergency number is warranted. Maybe they will say that there's nothing they can do. But if nothing else, there will be documentation that this happened and she tried to intervene. 

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  • image Banana44:
    image Ilumine:
    image jobalchak:
    image Banana44:

    I think the situation is not best for your children, but I also think involving police or CPS is an abuse of the system.

    Is there an actual assault to report to police?  what is the crime?  Police are first responders, they are not counselors, babysitters, or the 5 year olds parents.  

    Your children are much older than the 5 year old and although I agree they should be able to tell DC and he should parent the 5 yo - that isn't happening, so if I were you, I would arm my children with parenting methods.  

    I'm sorry L, I don't want to play with you and if you bite me, I'm not going to play with you tomorrow either.  My DD is 4 and my SS is 10 and SS handles DD very well (although DD would never bite her brother she has hit him).  I admit, I parent so my SS has someone to complain to.  

    Like I said it sucks for your kids to be unhappy at their father's but I don't think this is a police situation.  Now if DC bit DD or hit DD then yes - by all means call CPS and the police - but not for sibling conflict. 

    And I do know your history from last year - I'm not writing this as a newcomer - but honestly, think about what the police are for - is this a police situation? 

    I think the real problem is that DC is allowing this behavior to continue.  If DD tries to leave the room or refuses to play with L then she gets reprimanded by DC.  As DD and DS have explained to me, they are expected to entertain L so that DC can watch TV, play video games, etc.  

    I agree that this is not a police matter, but I'm wondering if CPS should be involved because DC isn't protecting his other children from this child.  He isn't exercising any sort of care for DD's welfare.  I think there is a real problem when the 10 year old is being left to "babysit" a 5 year old and is not allowed to remove herself from the situation when he bites or hits her.  What parenting tips can I really give to her?  I tell her to leave the room and refuse to play with him if he's mean to her, and then he bites and hits her.  When she tries to walk away from him and tell DC, she gets yelled at by DC for not doing what the 5 year old wants and basically condones the 5 year old biting her and hitting her.  What recourse does she really have here? 

    I totally disagree with Banana.  If the noticeable (to a photograph taken by a pre-teen) bite mark had occurred by another adult, it is an abuse charge, CORRECT?

    So JOB - here is what you are going to do.  

    1) Call your lawyer and ask him/her what your recourse is, given that you already have physical documentation that it is not safe for the children.  

    2) Have your son take more pictures of the first bite/facial bruise - now that the bruising has set in. 

    3) as soon as the next incident happens (and unfortunately it will), have your son take pictures again and send them.

    4) Call the non-emergency phone number of DC's local police department and ask for a welfare check up.  Explain that your older son has now sent pictures of a second incident where your DD has bite marks and bruises.  WHile your son is saying that it was done by the 5 yo younger stepbrother, you are concerned that they might actually be left alone because how can a child do that much damage unless there was no supervision.

    Sure you are stretching teh truth.  But your daughter should not have bruises because her biodouchefather cannot be bothered to supervise properly.  

    If they do not follow through, then call Social Services and say the same thing.  Again, stress that you are concerned with the amount or lack of supervision (do not actually say you think they were left alone because that goes into lying) because there is now way a 5 yo should be biting a 10 yo like that...more than once...unless something is wrong there. 

    Legally speaking, unless an adult bit me in front of a police officer then no - it is not assault.  Abuse (unless child or spousal is not a crimes code).

    Just because you can see a bite mark or a bruise does not equate abuse or assault.  I have bruises all over my legs right now because I was recently out sailing - I could take a picture and say I was abused - this is why a police officer needs to witness an altercation for an assault charge.

    Also, most police departments do not have non-emergency numbers.  All calls are sent through a 911 answering point, which is normally undermanned and handling an entire county.

    There is absolutely no crimes code for a 5 year old biting his older sister.  It is abuse of a system to call the police for something like this.

    If the DC won't parent than the children need to be taught how to handle it - and honestly, Wendi's idea is great - bite him back (just don't break skin - he is only 5 and it is not his fault who his parents are). 

    Never said I was going to call the police, I said CPS - Child Protective Services.  I'm sorry if that keeps getting lost in translation, I never meant to say that I would call 911 on a 5 year old.  I do think that CPS should be involved if there is a continued harm to a child, regardless of the age of the child.  Children are removed from homes for abusing their siblings, and if a child is being hurt and the adults in the home aren't stopping it, why should the child be made to suffer?  I saw the picture of the teeth marks in DD's arm.  The brat drew blood.  That to me warrants concern about DD's well being and safety there, especially when DC yelled at her for not doing the 5 year old's bidding.

    I'm sorry, but I will never tell my child that it is not ok for someone to bite her, but ok for her to bite someone back.  I don't believe that violence stops violence.  How does that even make sense?

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  • In my expirience if the perp is a child under18 and hasnt done anything horrible, by horrible I mean sexual abuse or something along those lines, CPS will shrug their shoulders and move on. Since this perp is 5 I have a strong feeling CPS would shrug their shoulders. I agree however if YS feels like he needs to call the cops then he should call them. He should never feel like he cant call, the police will document and should take YS aside and explain what he should do if he feels either him or his sis are in danger.
    Im sorry you have to go through this. I hope Aug 8th comes quick! In the mean time try to take your mind off it...see a movie or sonething.
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  • Jo, I'm reading some articles claiming that sibling violence falls under the domestic violence umbrella. This article (http://www.tbi.tn.gov/tn_crime_stats/publications/2005 DomesticViolResBrief.pdf) which is specific to TN says clearly that "sibling" is a relationship that applies.

    I'm not suggesting that a 5-yo be crucified for this. But if you can get someone out to the house, maybe DC can intercede to at least keep them separated. 

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  • image fellesferie:

    Jo, I'm reading some articles claiming that sibling violence falls under the domestic violence umbrella. This article (http://www.tbi.tn.gov/tn_crime_stats/publications/2005 DomesticViolResBrief.pdf) which is specific to TN says clearly that "sibling" is a relationship that applies.

    I'm not suggesting that a 5-yo be crucified for this. But if you can get someone out to the house, maybe DC can intercede to at least keep them separated. 

    This is perfect.  Thank you Felles!

    I really hope I'm not coming across as wanting this kid crucified or detained for being a brat.  This is clearly a parenting, or lack thereof, issue.  But I don't want my DD to be scared when she's out there visiting.  And DC needs to either step up and discipline his child or he needs to step in and keep DD safe from L.  Maybe with all the Court stuff going on, a visit from CPS will make DC wake up a realize that his son's behavior is not acceptable and that something needs to be done. 

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  • image wendilea:
    ITell DD to bite the little sh!t back.

    THIS, THIS, THIS!!  Since DC won't step up your DD needs to learn to protect her space.  Of course, we all want our kids to handle things without violence.  However, if someone violates the personal space of my kids I tell them to defend themselves.  

    DS14 complained the other day to me that DS16 whopped him upside the head.  He didn't realize I heard DS16 ask him nicely several times to "stop and leave him alone" (DS14 was hitting him in the arm).  I told DS14 that I guess next time if he didn't want to get whopped in the head he will listen to one of the 3 times DS16 asked him nicely.

    The kid is only 5yrs so that makes it a tough call but honestly, if I were your DD I'd pinch him back or something til he realized I'm not going to put up with getting bit and hit.  If DC won't parent, that doesn't mean your DD has to put up with physical abuse - even if it is from a 5 year old.   

  • image jobalchak:
    image Banana44:
    image Ilumine:
    image jobalchak:
    image Banana44:

    I think the situation is not best for your children, but I also think involving police or CPS is an abuse of the system.

    Is there an actual assault to report to police?  what is the crime?  Police are first responders, they are not counselors, babysitters, or the 5 year olds parents.  

    Your children are much older than the 5 year old and although I agree they should be able to tell DC and he should parent the 5 yo - that isn't happening, so if I were you, I would arm my children with parenting methods.  

    I'm sorry L, I don't want to play with you and if you bite me, I'm not going to play with you tomorrow either.  My DD is 4 and my SS is 10 and SS handles DD very well (although DD would never bite her brother she has hit him).  I admit, I parent so my SS has someone to complain to.  

    Like I said it sucks for your kids to be unhappy at their father's but I don't think this is a police situation.  Now if DC bit DD or hit DD then yes - by all means call CPS and the police - but not for sibling conflict. 

    And I do know your history from last year - I'm not writing this as a newcomer - but honestly, think about what the police are for - is this a police situation? 

    I think the real problem is that DC is allowing this behavior to continue.  If DD tries to leave the room or refuses to play with L then she gets reprimanded by DC.  As DD and DS have explained to me, they are expected to entertain L so that DC can watch TV, play video games, etc.  

    I agree that this is not a police matter, but I'm wondering if CPS should be involved because DC isn't protecting his other children from this child.  He isn't exercising any sort of care for DD's welfare.  I think there is a real problem when the 10 year old is being left to "babysit" a 5 year old and is not allowed to remove herself from the situation when he bites or hits her.  What parenting tips can I really give to her?  I tell her to leave the room and refuse to play with him if he's mean to her, and then he bites and hits her.  When she tries to walk away from him and tell DC, she gets yelled at by DC for not doing what the 5 year old wants and basically condones the 5 year old biting her and hitting her.  What recourse does she really have here? 

    I totally disagree with Banana.  If the noticeable (to a photograph taken by a pre-teen) bite mark had occurred by another adult, it is an abuse charge, CORRECT?

    So JOB - here is what you are going to do.  

    1) Call your lawyer and ask him/her what your recourse is, given that you already have physical documentation that it is not safe for the children.  

    2) Have your son take more pictures of the first bite/facial bruise - now that the bruising has set in. 

    3) as soon as the next incident happens (and unfortunately it will), have your son take pictures again and send them.

    4) Call the non-emergency phone number of DC's local police department and ask for a welfare check up.  Explain that your older son has now sent pictures of a second incident where your DD has bite marks and bruises.  WHile your son is saying that it was done by the 5 yo younger stepbrother, you are concerned that they might actually be left alone because how can a child do that much damage unless there was no supervision.

    Sure you are stretching teh truth.  But your daughter should not have bruises because her biodouchefather cannot be bothered to supervise properly.  

    If they do not follow through, then call Social Services and say the same thing.  Again, stress that you are concerned with the amount or lack of supervision (do not actually say you think they were left alone because that goes into lying) because there is now way a 5 yo should be biting a 10 yo like that...more than once...unless something is wrong there. 

    Legally speaking, unless an adult bit me in front of a police officer then no - it is not assault.  Abuse (unless child or spousal is not a crimes code).

    Just because you can see a bite mark or a bruise does not equate abuse or assault.  I have bruises all over my legs right now because I was recently out sailing - I could take a picture and say I was abused - this is why a police officer needs to witness an altercation for an assault charge.

    Also, most police departments do not have non-emergency numbers.  All calls are sent through a 911 answering point, which is normally undermanned and handling an entire county.

    There is absolutely no crimes code for a 5 year old biting his older sister.  It is abuse of a system to call the police for something like this.

    If the DC won't parent than the children need to be taught how to handle it - and honestly, Wendi's idea is great - bite him back (just don't break skin - he is only 5 and it is not his fault who his parents are). 

    Never said I was going to call the police, I said CPS - Child Protective Services.  I'm sorry if that keeps getting lost in translation, I never meant to say that I would call 911 on a 5 year old.  I do think that CPS should be involved if there is a continued harm to a child, regardless of the age of the child.  Children are removed from homes for abusing their siblings, and if a child is being hurt and the adults in the home aren't stopping it, why should the child be made to suffer?  I saw the picture of the teeth marks in DD's arm.  The brat drew blood.  That to me warrants concern about DD's well being and safety there, especially when DC yelled at her for not doing the 5 year old's bidding.

    I'm sorry, but I will never tell my child that it is not ok for someone to bite her, but ok for her to bite someone back.  I don't believe that violence stops violence.  How does that even make sense?

    Because you can be the nice, rational, non-violent person all day long and bullies will still hit and bite you.  5 year old bullies turn into 10 year old bullies.  They will still assault you and do whatever they want (they were raised by DC's like your ex) because you let them.  

    Violence is the last resort, of course, but sometimes it is necessary to fight back.  CPS and the Police are not going to do a thing over a 5 year old biting a 10 year old - although I do think documenting is good.  The only way your DD can stop getting hurt in THIS moment is to defend herself.  Just my two cents.

  • That 5 yo is a little sh!t. Ugh. I 110% agree with everything Illumine said.
    image
  • image riabiron:
    call cps. tell ds to call the cops. it will continue and escalate until someone stops it.


    Hey Ria!!!

    Ditto this. Call the cops for a welfare check and call CPS for the same. They probably won't do much but maybe it will send a message.
    Jen - Mom to two December 12 babies Nathaniel 12/12/06 and Addison 12/12/08
  • The problem is that if DC is ok with his 5yo punching and biting and DD gets in trouble for not playing or babysitting him I would imagine he will freak if she bites back and then I would not be shocked if she is physically discuplined. And I don't think Jo is talking to her kids and she cannot exactly text this to her kid. If it is more than normal fighting then ask te police to do a welfare check and unfortunately hope that scares them which unfortunately it might not but she would have a record if it is as bad as DD says band if it not bad then she knows DD is exaggerating.
    Jen - Mom to two December 12 babies Nathaniel 12/12/06 and Addison 12/12/08
  • image 4luvof2boys:

    Because you can be the nice, rational, non-violent person all day long and bullies will still hit and bite you.  5 year old bullies turn into 10 year old bullies.  They will still assault you and do whatever they want (they were raised by DC's like your ex) because you let them.  

    Violence is the last resort, of course, but sometimes it is necessary to fight back.  CPS and the Police are not going to do a thing over a 5 year old biting a 10 year old - although I do think documenting is good.  The only way your DD can stop getting hurt in THIS moment is to defend herself.  Just my two cents.

    I guess this is just a difference in parenting styles.  I don't believe that biting a child back after being bitten teaches them anything, other than biting someone when they upset/hurt you is ok.  I'm sorry, I just don't.  DD is older than L and knows better.  I would be quite upset with her if I found out she acted physically towards L, other than removing him from her person.  I don't believe that violence solves anything.  Ever.  I don't feel that removing yourself from a situation is "letting" someone bully you.  It's simply being the smarter, bigger person and not stooping to their level.

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  • I think you make good points Jo and I wouldn't teach a child to bite back either.  I agree with the spirit of "bite him back" as in defend yourself.  Not literally telling her to "bite" him.  But that she can defend herself from an attack, bully or 5 year old.  The options for DD in the immediate moment are few except to defend herself.  Even if you take all the steps above and call in the troops, DD is still stuck with L right now.  Likely all they can do is document and DD will still be stuck with L.  

    Sometimes removing someone from your person is making sure to remove them physically when they are attacking you.  She doesn't have to bite him back.  But she can learn to anticipate an attack and restrain him, or make him submit physically without hurting him.  They show this in my kids Tae Kwon Do classes.  

    While she can certainly leave the room to avoid conflict, not all attacks leave you enough time to have a civil exit.  5 year olds are fast and your DD has a right to avoid getting bit or have black eyes by backing him off - forcefully so if the situation calls for it.  I assure you I would if in her shoes and have many times with my own brothers and sisters - pushed them off, away, or down to get them off me when they are hurting me/violating my personal space.

    Human bites are a nasty thing and if DC can't teach his son manners, then his son can certainly learn there are consequences for hurting/biting/punching/kicking or other to DD.  That kid needs to get thumped - from his sister - and have a little respect.  I can completely understand a difference in parenting styles and appreciate your thoughtful response to my feedback.  I hope this clarifies what I said poorly earlier - even if its not right for you.  No matter what you do T&P.  This whole situation is ugh.  
  • I would also add that I do mean this in the spirit of siblings, establishing the pecking order and the normal sort of physical confrontations with ones brothers and sisters.  Not that the 5 year old should be abused because he has a lousy dad.  But that if I thump my sister, she is going to thump me and visa versa.  
  • Can you text your DD and tell her to go the bathroom and lock herself in there to "use" the restroom when the 5 yo starts behaving this way? Maybe when she comes out, the 5 yo will have moved on to something else. As a way to remove herself but with a reason valid enough that maybe DC won't catch on? Can she go take a shower/bath if it happens again? Just trying to think of ways to remove herself from the situation. In our own household, we have always taught the kids to try to remove themselves from any conflicts before it escalates especially if they are the older child in the situation. But of course, we don't tolerate hitting, ect. I would probably call for a well check and mention the pics you've received.

    DD(14),SD(13),SS(11),SS(9),DS(3)

  • In my expirience if the perp is a child under18 and hasnt done anything horrible, by horrible I mean sexual abuse or something along those lines, CPS will shrug their shoulders and move on. Since this perp is 5 I have a strong feeling CPS would shrug their shoulders. I agree however if YS feels like he needs to call the cops then he should call them. He should never feel like he cant call, the police will document and should take YS aside and explain what he should do if he feels either him or his sis are in danger.

    Im sorry you have to go through this. I hope Aug 8th comes quick! In the mean time try to take your mind off it...see a movie or sonething.

    This. I would also worry that if you called CPS bd could go to court and say you were trying to interrupt his time or alienate the kids from him. Not that he has grounds but I can see someone from a twisted mindset trying that.

    Then a judge would look at it and say little siblings sometimes bite their older siblings and may admonish you.

    I would tell DD she did the right thing by telling BD and tell her next time she has a right to tell the younger sibling "that hurt, I will not play with you if you hurt me" and to walk away like Gin said to the bathroom or to her room.

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • Biting beyond 3yo is not normal
    Jen - Mom to two December 12 babies Nathaniel 12/12/06 and Addison 12/12/08
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