November 2013 Moms

Modified Immunization Schedule?

mobile: Modified Immunization Schedule?

So I was hanging out with a few girlfriends last night and one of them, whose daughter is 10 months old, mentioned that she had been kicked out of her pediatrician's practise for wanting to follow a modified immunization schedule. I guess there is a certain schedule that infants are supposed to follow in terms of getting all their shots, and my friend (for whatever reason) chose to immunize her daughter later than the norm.

 I didn't want to ask her too many questions about it because she's quite opinionated and I just didn't feel like getting into it. But has anyone ever heard of this "modified immunization schedule"? To me it wouldn't make a lot of sense to immunize your child differently than what Public Health and your doctor recommend, but wondering what you all think, especially STM's?

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Re: Modified Immunization Schedule?

  • shanbpshanbp
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    I have several friends who did that with the support of their pedis.

    They were stay at home moms, and they and their children were not out and about much at all during that time frame.

    I would look into it more if I were going to be in that situation, but we'll be exposing LO pretty early and will follow the standard recommended schedule.
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  • I don't see the point. If you plan on giving them the immunizations anyway why not just follow the standard schedule. Just my opinion.
  • I know quite a few who have followed the Dr Sears' schedule.
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  • I have heard of it and if you want your children to be unprotected longer, then go ahead. The studies do not back up the delayed schedule.


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  • Since we went to mommy/baby classes at the public schools in our area from day one, we have kept DD on the standard schedule. We will be doing that with DS too. Unless you want to be holed up in your house and have no visitors, doing that would scare me too much. People do it because they are afraid of the vaccines (the whole Jenny McCarthy scare coupled with an overblown worry about vaccine reactions that are rare). If you or your partner had any reactions to immunizations when you got them, then you may consider trying it just in case your kid inherited that from you. But otherwise, I see it as more dangerous than good.
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  • I'm so doing it. It is a very controversial topic. So i wont get to into it too much. everyone has their own opinions. I told my pediatrician what my plan is.. To follow the early 1980s guidelines, and he was extremely supportive and encouraging of it. I have my own personal experience and reasons for doing so. I actually have a few friends who did the same thing... Their babies are now between the ages of 1 and 4 and are totally fine.
  • The current immunization schedules are based on many large studies and the best available evidence.  The goals of the current schedule are to provide the best response to the vaccines based on the baby's developing immune system and provide protection when the baby is most vulnerable.  The modified immunization schedule has no science to back it up.  I admit, it does feel like a LOT of immunizations, but the baby's immune system is exposed to far, far more pathogens just by being out in the world, so the vaccines won't "overtax" the baby's immune system.  

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  • From my research I want to follow the immunization schedule Canada uses. They delay a few things. I have also read up on Dr Sears.
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  • image Alaws88:
    I'm so doing it. It is a very controversial topic. So i wont get to into it too much. everyone has their own opinions. I told my pediatrician what my plan is.. To follow the early 1980s guidelines, and he was extremely supportive and encouraging of it. I have my own personal experience and reasons for doing so. I actually have a few friends who did the same thing... Their babies are now between the ages of 1 and 4 and are totally fine.

    What "personal experiences" could you possibly have for using an outdated vaccine schedule to eliminate roughly half the vaccines your child needs? And your anecdotal evidence of your friends' kids turning out "fine" w/o all their vaccines is ridiculous.

    You and your friends are putting your whole community at risk of getting meningitis (that vax wasn't created til the mid-2000's), pneumonia (the Hib vax protects against that and other dangerous diseases), rotavirus, and many others. And these diseases actually kill people, like other kids who can't have them or elderly members of your community whose immune systems are compromised.

    OP, the "modified"/Dr Sears schedule is a bunch of bunk. Dr. Sears is not an immunologist or epidemiologist and he created the schedule as a way to make mommies feel better about giving their kids lots of shots. It is not founded in any sort of science and actually has shown to create problems with thousands of kids not receiving full courses of several vaccines (and thereby reducing their immunity and increasing the likelihood that they or a family member or someone in their community will catch something from them).

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  • We did a delayed schedule.  First of all, they want to give your baby 4, or more, shots at 2, 4, 6 months.  If they are getting the vaccinations, they do have some protection.  They don't need to get them so close together and so many at one time. If you look at other country's vaccination schedule, the US's is serious overkill.  And that brings me to the pharmaceutical companies.  Your doc gets paid for using certain brands of vaccinations and it has become such a huge problem.  Believing in the 'system' and not doing your homework is a huge mistake. Humans are greedy and do not always have your child's best interest in mind.  That is the truth.
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  • image DebateThis:

    image Alaws88:
    I'm so doing it. It is a very controversial topic. So i wont get to into it too much. everyone has their own opinions. I told my pediatrician what my plan is.. To follow the early 1980s guidelines, and he was extremely supportive and encouraging of it. I have my own personal experience and reasons for doing so. I actually have a few friends who did the same thing... Their babies are now between the ages of 1 and 4 and are totally fine.

    What "personal experiences" could you possibly have for using an outdated vaccine schedule to eliminate roughly half the vaccines your child needs? And your anecdotal evidence of your friends' kids turning out "fine" w/o all their vaccines is ridiculous.

    You and your friends are putting your whole community at risk of getting meningitis (that vax wasn't created til the mid-2000's), pneumonia (the Hib vax protects against that and other dangerous diseases), rotavirus, and many others. And these diseases actually kill people, like other kids who can't have them or elderly members of your community whose immune systems are compromised.

    OP, the "modified"/Dr Sears schedule is a bunch of bunk. Dr. Sears is not an immunologist or epidemiologist and he created the schedule as a way to make mommies feel better about giving their kids lots of shots. It is not founded in any sort of science and actually has shown to create problems with thousands of kids not receiving full courses of several vaccines (and thereby reducing their immunity and increasing the likelihood that they or a family member or someone in their community will catch something from them).



    THIS!!!!

    We will be following the current vaccination schedule. We are also requesting our family and any friends who can to get a flu shot and the tDap shot if they want to spend any time with our daughter. Minnesota during flu season is no joke.
  • image DebateThis:

    image Alaws88:
    I'm so doing it. It is a very controversial topic. So i wont get to into it too much. everyone has their own opinions. I told my pediatrician what my plan is.. To follow the early 1980s guidelines, and he was extremely supportive and encouraging of it. I have my own personal experience and reasons for doing so. I actually have a few friends who did the same thing... Their babies are now between the ages of 1 and 4 and are totally fine.

    What "personal experiences" could you possibly have for using an outdated vaccine schedule to eliminate roughly half the vaccines your child needs? And your anecdotal evidence of your friends' kids turning out "fine" w/o all their vaccines is ridiculous.

    You and your friends are putting your whole community at risk of getting meningitis (that vax wasn't created til the mid-2000's), pneumonia (the Hib vax protects against that and other dangerous diseases), rotavirus, and many others. And these diseases actually kill people, like other kids who can't have them or elderly members of your community whose immune systems are compromised.

    OP, the "modified"/Dr Sears schedule is a bunch of bunk. Dr. Sears is not an immunologist or epidemiologist and he created the schedule as a way to make mommies feel better about giving their kids lots of shots. It is not founded in any sort of science and actually has shown to create problems with thousands of kids not receiving full courses of several vaccines (and thereby reducing their immunity and increasing the likelihood that they or a family member or someone in their community will catch something from them).




    I don't owe you any sort of explanation for my choices regarding MY child. Also you jumped to conclusions. I nor my friends are putting my community into danger.. no vaccines are being skipped, simply delayed by a couple months. What I meant by stating that their children are fine IS they have not contracted any disease just because the shot was put off by a couple months. By the 1980s scheldule I meant the time frame. Instead of pumping the vaccines into my baby at once.. Example the ones that are doubled up. they will be spread out. She will not be missing any, including the newer ones, added since 1980. And my personal reasons really isn't any of your business, but it involves my DD who is 4 years old. Are you in the medical field? Because I am. I have studied this.. Not everyone shares the same views that I do, and that's fine. You will always find different opinions within the medical field. You seem very educated on the topic and thats great, If you want to vaccinate your baby on the recommended scheldule, good for you, It's your child and your choice. Please do not criticize my choices because they are not the same as yours. Like I wrote in my pp, I am not getting into the details because it is such a controversial topic. And I am not the debating it via Internet with a stranger. It will just get all sorts of frustrating. Espically on a board where we will have to quote each other to respond turning it into a huge long post. At this point I am just going to agree to disagree and settle with the fact that Your child will be fully vaccinated by a year and a half and mine by 2 and a half.

    Edit.. on mobile. Had to fix a couple auto correct errors, because that just annoys the hell out of me when things are misspelled or not used correctly.
  • image aliwisewoman:
    We did a delayed schedule. nbsp;First of all, they want to give your baby 4, or more, shots at 2, 4, 6 months. nbsp;If they are getting the vaccinations, they do have some protection. nbsp;They don't need to get them so close together and so many at one time. If you look at other country's vaccination schedule, the US's is serious overkill. nbsp;And that brings me to the pharmaceutical companies. nbsp;Your doc gets paid for using certain brands of vaccinations and it has become such a huge problem. nbsp;Believing in the 'system' and not doing your homework is a huge mistake. Humans are greedy and do not always have your child's best interest in mind. nbsp;That is the truth.



    This. Is exactly what I agree with. She stated it alot better.. Which I clearly didn't.
  • We'll be following the recommended schedule here in Canadaland. To each their own, but I strongly believe in vaccinating and these schedules weren't just made for fun.
  • We will be following the standard/updated vaccination schedule. I can somewhat understand parents' concerns about giving their child so many vaccinations early on, but studies have shown that this schedule creates a safer environment for ALL. One of the reasons why the delayed schedule often works for families is because almost everyone else is getting vaccinated earlier, keeping the unvaccinated children from being exposed in the first place. However, those unvaccinated children create a bigger risk for children who have not completed the full round of a particular vaccine. Because of this, it just seems kind of selfish to not stick to the recommended schedule. 
  • Just wanted to share that there's an opinion piece on CNN.com today by David Perry. It's called Jenny McCarthy and fear-based parenting: http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/17/opinion/perry-jenny-mccarthy-autism/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

    If you think that perpetuating an unfounded fear of vaccines doesn't put anyone at risk, then you're wrong. If you want to do your own research, check out what the CDC's position on the issue is.

    On a side note, there's a really interesting documentary on the Polio vaccine, it's called Modern Marvels: Polio Vaccine.

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  • I will be vaccinating DS2 like I did with DS1, on schedule and with all the recommended vaccines. I have done my research and taken advice from my family members that are doctors (including a pediatrician who is department chair of general pediatrics at one of the best hospitals in the US) and know that this is the best course of action in protecting not only my child and family, but the community as a whole. 

     I think that people that do not vaccinate their children are idiots. 

    For the PP in this thread that are saying they are going to delay vaccinations, what is your reason for doing so? It's funny how no one ever states a valid reason. It's always some BS reason like "for personal reasons that I'm not going to discuss" or "I've done my research". Why not share that research with the rest of us?

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  • CGMBCGMB
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    image SittingOnAMtnTop:
    I think that people that do not vaccinate their children are idiots.nbsp;For the PP in this thread that are saying they are going to delay vaccinations, what is your reason for doing so? It's funny how no one ever states a valid reason. It's always some BS reason like "for personal reasons that I'm not going to discuss" or "I've done my research". Why not share that research with the rest of us?

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  • Dr. Sears is/was a pediatrician, not just some man trying to make mommy feel better. I will be following a modified immunization schedule. I will be a SAHM, not enrolling DD in daycare. You don't skip shots, they are just received at different times. Immunization is started at the same time, with all the same vaccinations. The CDC recommends on your infant getting 4 shots every visit, typically every 2 months. With the modified schedule, your infant receives 2 shots every visit, typically once a month. So at 4 months, your CDC schedule infant and my modified schedule infant will have had all the same vaccinations.

    Here is a link showing the CDC suggested schedule:
    http://www.oprah.com/health/DrSearsAlternativeandCDCsChildhoodVaccineSchedules/4

    Here is a link showing a Modified schedule:
    http://www.oprah.com/health/DrSearsAlternativeandCDCsChildhoodVaccineSchedules/5

    Sorry they aren't clicky, I'm mobile.

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  • image equibabe611:
    Here is a link showing the CDC suggested schedule: http://www.oprah.com/health/DrSearsAlternativeandCDCsChildhoodVaccineSchedules/4 Here is a link showing a Modified schedule: http://www.oprah.com/health/DrSearsAlternativeandCDCsChildhoodVaccineSchedules/5 Sorry they aren't clicky, I'm mobile.

    No offense but if you are trying to provide medical evidence for using a delayed vaccination schedule you might not want to link Oprah.com

    How about AAP, WHO, etc.

    ETA: Also, why are you choosing to not use the recommended schedule? I'm very curious. I too am a SAHM.

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  • I'll admit my bias as a family doc, but I go with the evidence of the general medical community with the standard immunization schedule, the ACIP and CDC are not for profit organizations-- bear in mind I am a military doc so am certainly not getting paid to use a certain company's product.  There is no evidence that a delayed schedule is beneficial to anyone.  Honestly, we are exposed to so many antigens every day that the few we actually use in immunzations is minimal.  Also, I'd rather get shots over with and not have to keep bringing my kids back to get poked- though honestly it's not a big deal for the shot more to bring them into the clinic (during the H flu shortage a few years ago I had to wait for a shipment to arrive and brought it home to give DD1).

     "The capacity of the immune system to respond to antigens is vast and far greater than most people realize. Experts estimate that humans can generate about 10 billion different antibodies [3] and that, due to exposures to germs and other foreign material, people make between 1 million and 100 million different antibodies during our lifetime [4]. The vaccine schedule produces a total of about 30 antibodies. It is also estimated that (a) each infant has the theoretical capacity to respond to about 10,000 vaccines at any one time and (b) if the 11 routinely recommended vaccines were administered together, the immune system would need to use only about 0.1% of its capacity to process them [5]."


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    ETA: Also, why are you choosing to not use the recommended schedule? I'm very curious. I too am a SAHM.


    This. I am just very curious!
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  • image SittingOnAMtnTop:

    image equibabe611:
    Here is a link showing the CDC suggested schedule:
    http://www.oprah.com/health/DrSearsAlternativeandCDCsChildhoodVaccineSchedules/4

    Here is a link showing a Modified schedule:
    http://www.oprah.com/health/DrSearsAlternativeandCDCsChildhoodVaccineSchedules/5

    Sorry they aren't clicky, I'm mobile.

    No offense but if you are trying to provide medical evidence for using a delayed vaccination schedule you might not want to link Oprah.com

    How about AAP, WHO, etc.

    ETA: Also, why are you choosing to not use the recommended schedule? I'm very curious. I too am a SAHM.



    I wasn't providing medical evidence, but examples of both schedules. I've chosen to go with a modified schedule because my child will get the same vaccinations in the same time frames as a child on a recommended schedule. By the time she is ready for kindergarten, she will have had all the same vaccinations as your child. I have a history of sensitivity to vaccinations and medications. Rather than getting 4 shots at once, every two months, she will get 2 shots every month. Not only will it be less traumatic for her, but we will be able to better pin point any adverse reactions she may have, given my history of adverse reactions.

    ETA: We are only modifying the schedule, not delaying it. At 4, 6, 8 months she will have the same vaccinations as other infants her age. She isn't going to be "unvaccinated". We are just splitting the vaccinations up to be monthly rather than bimonthly. She will have the same level of protection as other infants and will have the same risks of contracting or spreading disease as other infants. I do not agree with not vaccinating a child, or waiting until they are school age.

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  • image SittingOnAMtnTop:

    image equibabe611:
    Here is a link showing the CDC suggested schedule: http://www.oprah.com/health/DrSearsAlternativeandCDCsChildhoodVaccineSchedules/4 Here is a link showing a Modified schedule: http://www.oprah.com/health/DrSearsAlternativeandCDCsChildhoodVaccineSchedules/5 Sorry they aren't clicky, I'm mobile.

    No offense but if you are trying to provide medical evidence for using a delayed vaccination schedule you might not want to link Oprah.com

    How about AAP, WHO, etc.

    ETA: Also, why are you choosing to not use the recommended schedule? I'm very curious. I too am a SAHM.

    Agreed. But anyone who tries to find support of the Sears schedule will be hard-pressed to find anything legitimate. That's because there's no medical basis for the delayed schedule, and pediatricians aren't vaccine or virus specialists.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/123/1/e164.full

    Beyond that, SAHMs still travel through parks and airports, grocery stores, and restaurants. Coincidentally, the cases of measles that are in Seattle right now were transmitted in a park and in an airport. In 2008, four kids caught it in their pediatricians office from an unvaccinated child who was contagious.

    Also, Dr Sears said HIMSELF that he wrote his schedule so that people who otherwise wouldn't vaccinate their kids would feel more comfortable vaccinating:

    ?A lot of parents don?t really trust the vaccine system,? Sears says. ?I felt that if I could give parents a better understanding of vaccines -- as well as an alternative way to approach giving vaccines -- then these families who otherwise might not vaccinate could go ahead and feel comfortable with vaccinating.? In regard to MMR, he specifically says that parents who are "uncomfortable" with the regular schedule can feel better about delaying that vaccine til school, since you're "unlikely" to come into contact with anyone who has any of those three illnesses. Two years after he wrote the schedule, the largest outbreak of measles hit the US in decades - and 92% of the people who caught it were unvaccinated young children. 

    It's all about fuzzy feelings, and it's bunk.

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  • image Woodsie:
     Thing is, you ARE putting the community at risk between the recommended time of the vaccination and when you decide your special snowflake is ready for vaccinations. So it is our business. Care to share your study that supports a delayed vaccination? I don't understand why parents who are anti-vax or even against the regular schedule are so scared to share their superior knowledge. If it's the better way, why not try to educate the rest of us rather than brushing it off saying you don't need to explain.

    (cut down the quote tree so it doesn't get crazy)

    I agree with this 100%.  

    Alaws88 - If you feel so strongly, and believe the decision is best for you and your family I find it odd that you're not prepared to provide more details about your decision.  The only reason I can see for holding back is that you haven't done the necessary research and aren't truly confident about it.  Otherwise - I'm a big fan of educating myself when it comes to decisions about my children, so I would really really appreciate to hear other (educated, proven by science) opinions.  Please share. 

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  • Lots of people just don't understand how side effects get listed on medications. If a drug is in a trial phase and they give it to 1000 babies, and of those babies 1 grows up and develops autism BAM! Autism must be listed as a possible side effect. I think this is what happened with vaccines and when people don't educate themselves completely they take 1 tiny piece of info that might have a bit of relevance and use it to base entire arguments and opinions on. That 1 kid was possibly and probably going to develop Autism anyway, but hey. To each their own, but I know for certain that my kid won't be the 1 in 1 million who dies from diphtheria in the 21st century!
  • My reasoning is that four or five shots is a lot to be given at one time. A few of those are combination vaccinations meaning that your baby is being injected with up to 9 or 10 viruses at one time. Can you imagine doing that to yourself? What about having 5 shots and then coming back in 2 months for 5 more? And 5 more 2 months after that? It's crazy. I don't follow an actual schedule. I just worked with my doctor. She wanted to do the vaccinations at 3, 6, and 9 months. We usually did two at a time and then would come back in a month to have another two. Also, for first time moms after that second shot your baby will be flipping out and they still have two more to go.

    The bottom line is that anything that pharmaceutical companies haven't funded studies on, is unknown making it dangerous or harmful which is a load of crap. Herbs are dangerous because there aren't any huge studies done on them, etc. Anything unknown is dangerous. I won't buy into what the government tells me is safest, they aren't the most trustworthy source. I trust my mom intuition and the advice of my doctor.
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  • image aliwisewoman:
    My reasoning is that four or five shots is a lot to be given at one time. A few of those are combination vaccinations meaning that your baby is being injected with up to 9 or 10 viruses at one time. Can you imagine doing that to yourself? What about having 5 shots and then coming back in 2 months for 5 more? And 5 more 2 months after that? It's crazy. I don't follow an actual schedule. I just worked with my doctor. She wanted to do the vaccinations at 3, 6, and 9 months. We usually did two at a time and then would come back in a month to have another two. Also, for first time moms after that second shot your baby will be flipping out and they still have two more to go. The bottom line is that anything that pharmaceutical companies haven't funded studies on, is unknown making it dangerous or harmful which is a load of crap. Herbs are dangerous because there aren't any huge studies done on them, etc. Anything unknown is dangerous. I won't buy into what the government tells me is safest, they aren't the most trustworthy source. I trust my mom intuition and the advice of my doctor.

    LMFAO. So several hundred years of research (you know, since the first smallpox innoculations mandatory as far back as 1777) and EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD supporting the use of vaccines is totally outweighed by mommy intuition. They're all in cahoots with the WHO to infect your children, even those countries that can't be civil to each other and have nuclear weapons pointed at each other. That's logical.

     Your feelings about "too many" vaccines are unfounded, too.

    http://www.chop.edu/export/download/pdfs/articles/vaccine-education-center/too-many-vaccines.pdf

    Do you realize that the actual dosages of individual vaccines was much higher in the 60's-80's? Thanks to the wonders of RESEARCH (you know, the millions and millions of man hours that have been put into vaccines) even the combined vaccines are much smaller than the individual ones were years ago. And guess what? They're still safe.

    Do children encounter more immunological components

    from vaccines today than they did 30 years ago?
    A. No. Although children receive more vaccines now than ever
    before, most people would probably be surprised to learn that
    the number of immunological components in vaccines has
    dramatically decreased.
    Thirty years ago, children received vaccines which protected
    against seven diseases: measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria,
    tetanus, pertussis and polio. The total number of bacterial and
    viral proteins contained in these vaccines was a little more than
    3,000.
    Today, children receive vaccines that protect against 14 diseases,
    but the total number of immunological components in these
    vaccines is only about 150. This dramatic reduction is the result
    of scientific advances that have allowed for purer, safer vaccines.
     

     

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  • Nobody is advocating not getting your infant vaccinated. Those of us doing a modified immunization schedule are still vaccinating our children in the recommended time frame, we're just splitting the shots up. Rather than 4 shots every two months, my daughter will be getting 2 shots every month. She will have the same protection as your child. I do not condone or support not getting a child vaccinated or delaying it until school age. Again, we're simply splitting up the vaccinations to be monthly rather than bimonthly.

    Example:
    2 months old
    Rotavirus and DTaP

    3 months old
    PCV and Hib

    4 months old
    Rotavirus and DTaP

    5 months old
    PCV and Hib

    6 months old
    Rotavirus and DTaP

    7 months old
    PCV and Hib

    I personally, will elect to have the MMR vaccine done, rather than splitting it up into a vaccine for each individual disease. I will also elect to vaccinate for Polio sooner than 9 months. But as shown above, my baby will have the same vaccinations in the same time frames and doses as infants who are immunized under the standard schedule. My family Dr, pediatrician and Midwife all agree this is the best couse of action for us to take, given my history of sensitivity to vaccinations and medications.

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  • OP, you opened up a big, huge can of worms with this one. I'm using the Canadian schedule. It delays a few vaccines. Specifically, it delays the Hep B vaccine from birth to 5th grade (7th in one province I believe). Also, Rotavirus and HPV are optional. Will be giving the Rotavirus on time, delaying or possibly skipping the HPV.

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