Dads & Dads-to-be

Circumcision ? for the guys

Mobile- Circumcision ? for the guys

I'm from the Oct 2013 board and I need some dude help. We found out we are having a boy. Me and H are disagreeing on the circumcision issue.

I should say off the bat that we are both Atheists so religion does not play a roll what so ever. 

I do not want to circumcise. I think it's unnecessary and I would like to not put my kid through a surgery that isn't needed.

H wants to do it. His reasoning is he wants the kid to look the same as him. He also thinks that circumcision desensitizes and will "help" him later in life. 

So I thought I'd ask you guys for opinions since you all have wieners.

Is there anyone on here that is not religious and has an opinion on the subject.

TIA! 


Stefon 4Life
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Re: Circumcision ? for the guys

  • I think it's kind of weird when guys care if their son's penis looks like theirs. There are a lot of arguments on each side of this issue I respect, and ultimately I don't care what anyone else does.

    My big reasoning against was I figure he can always have it done later if he really wants to, but you can never undo it. Oh, and I didn't want to deal with cleaning it.

    http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-06/26/12/enhanced/webdr09/enhanced-13712-1403801446-6.jpg
    -My son was born in April 2012. He pretty much rules.
    kaylamarie16
  • image LuckyDad:

    I think it's kind of weird when guys care if their son's penis looks like theirs. There are a lot of arguments on each side of this issue I respect, and ultimately I don't care what anyone else does.

    My big reasoning against was I figure he can always have it done later if he really wants to, but you can never undo it. Oh, and I didn't want to deal with cleaning it.

    Thanks! I thought that was a weird reasoning too. He used the locker room analogy as well but I live in an area of Brooklyn where I feel like their are a lot of "crunchy" parents and most kids are not getting it done.  


    Stefon 4Life
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  • Go home Tm! Go ask Dh13, or YTIKim lol. 

     

    No really, aside from the "look like daddy" so he isn't confused with body images, it'll be easier for hygienic purposes to just snip it. We didn't have any issues with the procedure, it's pretty straight forward and M didn't really even seem to care he never cried cleaning it or changing diapers so I'm for it.  

  • Well, you can always cut it off (i.e. he can make the decision at 15 or 18 or 35 to be circumcised) but you cannot put it back- or at least it's slow and painful and not really the same (nerves in the foreskin are destroyed).

     Both my brother and I are uncircumcised: my uncle was gay and had had sex with thousands of men by the time we were born.  He pretty much put it out there that the uncircumcised men were more sensitive and more satisfied.  There are physiological reasons for the foreskin, protection, less lubrication needed, and benefits that I won't go into here.  Outside of religion, circumcision can only actually stand on looks, and whether it looks "better" is debatable.  The idea that purposefully desensitizing your child to "help" him later in life is beyond barbaric, honestly.  You want desensitized, get some special lube that will wear off, don't permanently cripple his pleasure for some irrational ideal.

    Circumcision was intended to be a masturbation preventative, from an era when masturbation was still taboo and horrific.  It's outmoded, and not even recommended any more.  I don't have any numbers, but consider that apart from everything else a boy born in 2013 is much more likely to have a mixed peer group (both circumcised and not) than someone born in 1974, and it was never even an issue for me or anybody I've been intimate with.  In fact I can't think of a single instance it came up until I started arguing against it on the Internet.

    Still, I know several people now in real life, who did not circumcise their boys, even though the father is circumcised.  I've seen them wrestle with the "it doesn't look like dad's" issue.  As far as I know it's never come up with any of those children as they've grown- I mean come on, they're kids, if you don't explain why it's an issue, make them see the difference they aren't going to get anxious over it.

    For myself, it never occurred to me - honestly, dad's penis is/was a different thing than mine as a child; it's not like a kid is going to note the lack or addition of a foreskin.  Your child's penis already won't look like dad's: size and hirsuitness for starters, so the foreskin is not going to matter- plus at worst it looks like dad has pulled his foreskin back, eh?  No different really.  Even as an adult I don't consider my dad's penis to be different from mine- even though I know logically he is circumcised and I'm not, I don't think of him as being different.

    I do remember that my dad could pull his penis through the opening on his underwear and pee no handed, I could never do that because the foreskin slides along the shaft allowing the penis to turtle back in- I still can't, but at the time it wasn't like I came to the conclusion that it was because I had a foreskin and he didn't, if anything I probably figured when I was bigger I'd be able to pee no handed... but I don't remember thinking about it, or the why of it, any more than dad having a beard and me not.  It just didn't mean anything.  Looks or being different are really a weak argument for cutting part of the body off.

    I'd love to get on my soapbox, I value my foreskin about as much as any part of me and think they should all be left alone, but I'm not trying to preach here, just share my own experiences.  Like I said, if you regret the decision you can have him circumcised at any age- or he can choose it for himself later, but honestly I don't know why anyone would do that now that the myths have been dissolved about circumcision... that's not true, I can think of two reasons still: religious reasons (e.g. learning your Jewish and choosing to observe that ritual), and meeting a girl that thinks a foreskin is so disgusting or ugly it prevents a relationship.

     All I can say is it's really better with a foreskin, at least in my experience.  And I can somewhat emulate being circumcised by leaving the foreskin back- so I believe I have an idea of what it's like without it, but it sounds like he already understands that part- and I can't imagine why he thinks that's relevant to lasting, or that what a woman really wants is a desensitized penis.

  • Not super religious here and chose to have our sons circumsized mostly for ease of cleaning purposes.  I frankly didn't care if we had matching penises or not.  Frankly, it'll hurt a great deal less now than if he has it done later.
  • I said it was Dh's decision since he had the penis and I didn't. He chose for DS to be circumcised for basically the same reasons as Coltsdad. DH deems himself an Atheist and doesn't really seem a real purpose in having or keeping the foreskin. It's just another area you have to worry about cleaning it well enough so it doesn't get infected.

    Speaking of cleaning well enough, I babysat a little boy who was uncircumcised and his poor little member was always so red and had gunk in it every time I changed his diaper. His parents bathed him everyday, too but I can only imagine how sore it must have gotten. I put diaper cream on it a number of time after really cleaning it trying to give it a chance to heal.

    Speaking as a female, I personally don't see a need for it. any guy I've known or been with that has been snipped, certainly didn't lack from sensation.

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  • image T3hHusband:

    Go home Tm! Go ask Dh13, or YTIKim lol. 

     

    No really, aside from the "look like daddy" so he isn't confused with body images, it'll be easier for hygienic purposes to just snip it. We didn't have any issues with the procedure, it's pretty straight forward and M didn't really even seem to care he never cried cleaning it or changing diapers so I'm for it.  

     

    haha We've talked about it so many times on our board that I need some fresh prospective. Ones with weens attached :) 


    Stefon 4Life
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  • Thanks everyone. Seems like my H is not budging on this. He hasn't had many opinions on things but apparently this is the one he feels strongly about. I guess we have 5 more months to discuss. 

    Stefon 4Life
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  • WulfgarWulfgar
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    All of the recent medical studies show that circumcision is healthier then not being circumcised.  This includes helping to reduce risk of STDs later in life and urinary track infections.

    Also, at least while the child is young, it helps if the father and child are similar.

    So far the only reasons that I have heard for not circumcising is that it may increase sensitivity but the research that I have seen so far can neither confirm nor deny this.  Another is that the child might feel a little pain which is also false. 

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  • I know you asked for advice from men, but I figured I could help. My husband and were going through the exact same problem 2.5 years ago.

    One morning I was TIRED of the constant argument so I told him that we would do our own research on the matter. I would look for medical articles on the cons and he would look for the pros. When we got home from work we exchanged our "research". I am not lying when I say that a minute into reading, my husband yelled "OK YOU WIN!!".

    He never brought it up again.


    Making the decision to have a child - it is momentous. 
    It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body. - Elizabeth Stone
  • image LoveIsAll25:
    I know you asked for advice from men, but I figured I could help. My husband and were going through the exact same problem 2.5 years ago. One morning I was TIRED of the constant argument so I told him that we would do our own research on the matter. I would look for medical articles on the cons and he would look for the pros. When we got home from work we exchanged our "research". I am not lying when I say that a minute into reading, my husband yelled "OK YOU WIN!!". He never brought it up again.

    That's funny. I'll give that a shot. I keep reading things to him I find but he hasn't budged just yet. Fingers crossed! 


    Stefon 4Life
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  • Statistically, more men are circumcised then not....you can look that up in about 30 seconds online.

    Religion is not the only reason that boys are circumcised, and the stats would support that. I am surprised you would not recognize that. Have you done any research on this?

    We circumcised our son without hesitation.  My wife at no time objected, and probably cared more about it than I did. There is some logic behind the idea that by my son looking like me down there, it will make it much easier for us to train him how to use that thing. I would never expect a woman to understand that in much the same way I have no idea what goes on down there in terms of training for the girls.  At the end of the day my wife deferred to me because she has no idea about the penis, and she does not plan to have a lot of interaction with his penis after he is out of diapers.  That is pretty normal from where I sit.

    I do not know what it is like to have a foreskin.  As a result, I have no clue what needs to be done down there in terms of clean up and maintenance. But there is cleaning to worry about with the skin there, and that is not the case with the skin gone. Your husband is probably considering that as well.

    The locker room thing is very real.  The older I got in sports, the more crude the humor was.  Again, we are boys....we don't do catty, we do loud right at you!!  In all my years playing sports, I saw only a handful of uncircumcised teammates. This was a long time ago, but I doubt very much that boys have changed in how they interact in that environment.

    What parents decide for their child is a pretty personal thing.  All we can do here is share our own views and experiences on the topic.  In my opinion, it really is not that big of a deal one way or another. It is about what parents are comfortable with, and the boy is not going to remember or really care if he got snipped when he was two days old.

    The trauma thing is laughable...it really is.  So I hope that is not a reason you are against it.

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  • image Wulfgar:

    All of the recent medical studies show that circumcision is healthier then not being circumcised.  This includes helping to reduce risk of STDs later in life and urinary track infections.

    Also, at least while the child is young, it helps if the father and child are similar.

    So far the only reasons that I have heard for not circumcising is that it may increase sensitivity but the research that I have seen so far can neither confirm nor deny this.  Another is that the child might feel a little pain which is also false. 

    Many of those studies just aren't very good. Or they looked at countries that don't have access to the same level of clean water and medicine as we do. Circumcision probably provides a small amount of protection from HIV infection, but again, if my son wants that benefit, he's free to go get it done himself when he's a teenager. Or he can wear condoms if he's in doubt of HIV status, which provide significantly more protection. Wrapping the package for casual sex is always good policy, IMHO.

     As for the pain, it's obvious an infant can feel pain. There's a reason they cry after shots. How much pain is involved is certainly an open question. 

    Although I'm perfectly happy with my penis, if I had the choice, I would want my foreskin back for sensitivity and lubrication. Again, I really don't care what anyone else does.

    http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-06/26/12/enhanced/webdr09/enhanced-13712-1403801446-6.jpg
    -My son was born in April 2012. He pretty much rules.
  • Ahh circumcision discussions...always fun.

    We decided to circumcise.  My wife and I both have friends and co-workers who didn't circumcise and their children ended up with various infections, simply from lack of routine cleaning down there.  

    Like LD said, I don't care what other people decide since ultimately it's a personal choice.  Do a lot of research and make an educated decision. 

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  • Robi1Robi1
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    image ladyjenna13:

    Statistically, more men are circumcised then not....you can look that up in about 30 seconds online.

    Not true... the global circumcision rate is around a third of the population. 

    http://www.circs.org/index.php/Reviews/Rates/Global ;

  • I'm a female and weighing in on this.  I've heard that circumcision is supposed to be more sanitary for baby.  They have less of a chance of infections if poo from their diaper gets under the skin or whatever it may be.  
  • Obviously it is a pretty split decision even among us guys so its really about the parents preference. When this topic came up between my wife and I she basically said "Since you obviously have more experience with this and you would know much more about the benefits versus the drawbacks I'm pretty much letting you field this one." And she has been on here for a while and circumcision isn't always popular among ladies on TB so she was naturally leaning against doing it but I told her that if this baby is a boy it would be my preference to have our son circumcised. I could have given her reasons (some she would understand and some she may not) why I personally felt that way but she was ok with it because as she said I would have more experience in that area and have a preference for a reason.

    I'm not saying that every boy should be circumcised but I think the father's preference should be given adequate weight in the decision.

  • My hubby and I are atheists too.

    We really thought this stat was interesting: It's the ONLY surgery in the U.S. performed without the patient's consent.

    Also, it's "genital mutilation". My midwife said it is only necessary in 3rd world countries where hygeine is an issue. (for the STD part of why people say to circumcise)

    Also, by the time your son is in high school, 50% of boys will be circumcised, and 50% won't be. So don't worry about him feeling like he looks different! 

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  • We just circumcized our first baby when he was born, two months ago! It was totally not a big deal. I'd had a csection so I did not attend but DH did and he said James cried for like 2 seconds. All it required for care was a dab of vaseline with each diaper change. Totally not a big deal. I had always assumed we would circmcize but would have been open to the discussion if DH felt we shouldn't -- he also had just assumed we would. It wasn't a big deal. When I talked to my OBGYN she said that it did have the benefit of decreased risk of STDs later in lfie.
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  • Seriously floored by the incorrect info posted in these responses. Also surprised that not a single guy said this: It isn't your member, it isn't your DH's either. It's your son's, and he should get to make that decision. We decided not to circ, even though DH is. I highly recommend that, as a pp suggested, you each do some research instead of listening to people's anecdotal tales. Have him watch a video of a circ - those babies SCREAM and scream. Diaper changes are certainly more painful with an open wound, and unlike a natural boy, circs require extra care until healed. 

    You will find that most of the post-industrial world does not circ. In Europe, rates are as low as 20% circ. Currently, US rates are 50/50, so as far as the locker room goes, it's even. Guys will find something to make fun of no matter what (skinny, fat, glasses, hairy, etc) so that's really not a good justification for circ. Plenty of circs. are botched, and there are real risks to the procedure, while the risk of UTI is extremely low. Ask yourself if you'd be willing to have your labia snipped to avoid a UTI - see how silly that sounds? There are a huge number of Drs in the US against circ, and Germany has now outlawed it as mutilation, with other countries expected to follow suit. It's hard for men to admit that what was done to them was medically unnecessary & isn't natural. The STD studies were found invalid years ago. It's a true ego issue, I think. That is why so many men in the U.S. continue to stand behind an outdated & ugly practice. They use language to describe circ - "the foreskin is removed from the penis"  that's aimed at normalizing the procedure. It's absurd to describe it that way - the foreskin is part of the penis. It would be like saying the body of your car isn't part of your car. The bottom line is that it's a cosmetic procedure & you truly have no right to decide that for your son. 

  • image MdWestMom:

    Seriously floored by the incorrect info posted in these responses. 

    Hey, thanks for coming to a Dad's board and bumping an oldish thread and telling Dads how we should feel about a controversial subject.

    No, wait, "thanks" is the wrong word. "Go away"?

    You also clearly didn't read my posts, where although I wasn't as hostile as you, I came down on the side of "I don't think it's really necessary or beneficial". 

    http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-06/26/12/enhanced/webdr09/enhanced-13712-1403801446-6.jpg
    -My son was born in April 2012. He pretty much rules.
  • image polooo26:

    Sounds like one of those made up stats. 95% of stats are made up, so I hear.

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    60% of the time it works every time. 

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  • I didn't circumsize my DS for the simple reason of choice.  I am the parent and guardian, but I didn't feel that it was the "right" thing to do to make that choice for my child when they were too young to speak for themselves.

    I've had 2 partners who were uncircumsized, and NEITHER of them had any hang-ups or issues about it. They were big proponents.  I do, however, also have some male friends who have issues about having been circumsized.  Both have said that, if given a choice, they would have left it intact. 

    The foreskin doesn't even fully pull back from the tip of the penis until 4-6 years of age.  A child is able to accurately guage his tolerance to retraction and you are able to teach them personal cleanliness and the importance of hygeine with the foreskin.  Mine is 4.5 years old now, and his is not fully pulled back.  He takes a bath EO day, but still washes his foreskin nightly. It's simply part of our routine. 

    Also; UTIs and STDs can be prevented just as easily with cleanliness and proteted sex practices.  These are parental responsibilities as well. Guiding our children to know how to keep themselves safe is important for their physical well-being. 

    Don't chop off the hat!  =D

  • I think I may apply for modship just to lock this thread down :P
    http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-06/26/12/enhanced/webdr09/enhanced-13712-1403801446-6.jpg
    -My son was born in April 2012. He pretty much rules.
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