Breastfeeding

Re: Um what

  • Wow.

    The Bump is such a formula company shill. This study used 40 whole babies that lost a very normal 5% of bodyweight and then were supplemented. Saying that babies that didn't need formula can get it and then breastfeeding can recover is an interesting thing to be excited enough to blog about. 

  • Or, you know, moms could be instructed and taught that weight loss is NORMAL, EXPECTED, and NOT A REASON TO SUPPLEMENT/doubt themselves.

    Grr.

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  • image theresat858:

    Or, you know, moms could be instructed and taught that weight loss is NORMAL, EXPECTED, and NOT A REASON TO SUPPLEMENT/doubt themselves.

    My pedi made me doubt myself because of my LO's lack of weight gain.  We knew that some weight loss was acceptable, and she also said that too,  but she didn't think he had gained enough weight back by 2 weeks.  She had us supplement, but we did it with EBM.  After a meeting with a LC, it was determined that my LO's weight was inflated at birth because of all of the fluids we both received and there were no issues (DS received antibiotics and other fluids for 3 days in the NICU). 

    So I don't agree with the article, but I can imagine in some cases where women are having issues with BF at first and it may be beneficial to supplement with formula to help them continue with BF.  Some BM is better than no BM.     

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  • And competent breastfeeding support is better than incompetent breastfeeding "support".
  • It's linked on the bottom, but here is a response article.

     http://bfmed.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/early-limited-data-for-early-limited-formula-use/

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  • Both of my LOs lost 10 percent and are just fine. Dd is 80 for weight and over 100 for length. DS was the same way. Sigh


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  • I have passed this thread along to the BGs. This isn't the first time one of these articles, which had good intent, has gone awry.

    DD lost some weight when she was born, more than 5% but less than 10%. I never supplemented and she's been at the top of the charts since her 2 week appointment. Gosh, we even managed to make it 18 full months without formula.

    (oh snap, am I going to lure PW out now, too?)

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  • image tokenhoser:
    And competent breastfeeding support is better than incompetent breastfeeding "support".

    Exactly!!!

    My LO did need some supplement in the beginning, but thankfully I was able to use mostly breastmilk - my concern with advising women to supplement with formula and not also advising them to pump is that you are setting moms up for supply issues.  

    That and the whole virgin-gut theory - aka why I will have donor BM on hand should a supplement be needed with my next LO (50% chance of same jaundice issues my current LO had - the bad kind). 

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  • image theresat858:

    Or, you know, moms could be instructed and taught that weight loss is NORMAL, EXPECTED, and NOT A REASON TO SUPPLEMENT/doubt themselves.

    Grr.

    My DD is just over a week old and we were told to supplement due to weight loss/preemie status/jaundice. The hospital LC also told me she wouldn't latch due to these issues. We are seeing a different LC today, fingers crossed she can help us. EPing is wearing on me, as is the crying/frustration of our nursing sessions. 

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  • TB you really dropped the ball on this one. You should prescreen your bloggers and their posts. 

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  • ETA: The Bump appears to have pulled the blog post.

    The first comment in the rebuttal article is from Dr. Jack Newman:

    "The article on which this is a comment is beyond silly and I cannot believe that Pediatrics would publish such an article. This is ?breastfeeding support? based on weights, in a situation where almost all babies are born ?overhydrated? because of maternal IV infusions during labour and birth. Assuming there is actually a problem (not proved by the article), then the mother should receive help with the breastfeeding which includes: 1. observation of a feeding to see if the baby is actually drinking from the breast and this information should be transmitted to the mother. 2. If the baby is not drinking, then the mother should be helped with the latching on of the baby, taught breast compression to help the baby get more milk, and not limiting feedings on the breast.

    There are two things about any supplementation, be it donor milk or formula:
    a) the message that is sent to mothers that tells them ?yes, you were right all along, your baby was indeed starving and you didn?t have enough milk?
    b) it provides a ?solution? that prevents mothers from getting real good hands on help and it prevents them from learning what they really need to learn to have confidence in breastfeeding

    There is nothing worse than ?proponents of breastfeeding? who believe in solving problems with breastfeeding by giving formula. Those are the ones that confuse the mothers the most.

    The quotes in the article are so typical ? the mothers are worried about the baby starving for the first three days, they say. So what do they do? They help them by ?weighing the baby and the mothers get to see the weight droping and droping?. That is fantastic practical and psychological help.

    And which babies got the formula? Those that lost 5% but no more than 10% of birth weight.

    And one of the last sentences is fascinating too: ?their study at least suggests that formula may be a viable option ? even for women who are inclined to dismiss it?. I also love it how they say their results may not be applicable elsewhere because they live in a community where women are eager to breastfeed and 98% initiate breastfeeding. So surely they must find ways to give these babies formula."

  • Holy small sample size.
  • Does anyone have a link to the actual Pediatrics article?

    Nevermind, I think you need a subscription.

  • Hey guys-

     Sorry this hit a nerve. We just wanted to share the findings of the study - we are not telling you to do this/recommending it - simply sharing the information.

    Thanks for understanding,

    Bump Jackie

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  • Unfortunately, I just saw this same study reported as fact on the TV news -- with no mention of the sample size.  They reported that new moms are able to breastfeed better longterm when providing formula to their newborns because they are less stressed about producing.

    Ugh.

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  • image TarHeelMomToBe:
    Unfortunately, I just saw this same study reported as fact on the TV news with no mention of the sample size.nbsp; They reported that new moms are able to breastfeed better longterm when providing formula to their newborns because they are less stressed about producing.Ugh.

    OMG that is terrible! That makes me sad.


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  • image TarHeelMomToBe:

    Unfortunately, I just saw this same study reported as fact on the TV news -- with no mention of the sample size.  They reported that new moms are able to breastfeed better longterm when providing formula to their newborns because they are less stressed about producing.

    Ugh.

    I just don't get the anxiety about producing. If you're not doing things counter-productive (like, oh, say, supplementing instead of nursing) you'll most likely be fine. But I guess my experience wasn't the norm, though. I really looked forward to BF, even early in my pregnancy. I also didn't read a whole lot about it, or talk to anyone about it, so the anxiety wasn't well "introduced."  

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  • image Runaway22:
    image TarHeelMomToBe:

    Unfortunately, I just saw this same study reported as fact on the TV news -- with no mention of the sample size.  They reported that new moms are able to breastfeed better longterm when providing formula to their newborns because they are less stressed about producing.

    Ugh.

    I just don't get the anxiety about producing. If you're not doing things counter-productive (like, oh, say, supplementing instead of nursing) you'll most likely be fine. But I guess my experience wasn't the norm, though. I really looked forward to BF, even early in my pregnancy. I also didn't read a whole lot about it, or talk to anyone about it, so the anxiety wasn't well "introduced."  

    The anxiety comes, in part, from pediatricians who expect all babies to gain 1+oz/day, when 0.5oz/day is in the realm of average. It comes from doctors who worry parents about their baby's weight gain when in reality, baby is gaining just fine.  It comes from weight loss that is increased by moms being pumped full of fluids during birth, and therefore isn't really a concern but the 'numbers' say it is.

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  • The study had a lot of limitations to it, but I don't think that means it's not worthy of discussion and should be quickly suppressed.

    One thing worth noting is that formula supplementation was limited to the first week of life, and mothers were told to give a small, controlled amount. To Token's point, maybe that IS an example of those mothers receiving more "support" because they were given a plan of action, of sorts, rather than just platitudes to keep going and stick it out till their milk came in. And maybe the takeaway is not that formula is necessarily beneficial but that it isn't harmful to a BFing relationship and it's okay to do what you need to do to get through the rough patches.

    I BFed for 13 months but I quit pumping around the six or seven month mark. As a working mom, I always said that supplementing allowed me to BF as long as I did because it was the best of both worlds. I'm not saying this particular study isn't flawed, but I bet it rings true for a lot of women.
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  • image Nechie122:
    The study had a lot of limitations to it, but I don't think that means it's not worthy of discussion and should be quickly suppressed. One thing worth noting is that formula supplementation was limited to the first week of life, and mothers were told to give a small, controlled amount. To Token's point, maybe that IS an example of those mothers receiving more "support" because they were given a plan of action, of sorts, rather than just platitudes to keep going and stick it out till their milk came in. And maybe the takeaway is not that formula is necessarily beneficial but that it isn't harmful to a BFing relationship and it's okay to do what you need to do to get through the rough patches. I BFed for 13 months but I quit pumping around the six or seven month mark. As a working mom, I always said that supplementing allowed me to BF as long as I did because it was the best of both worlds. I'm not saying this particular study isn't flawed, but I bet it rings true for a lot of women.

    The babies in this study got really small (appropriately small) amounts of formula delivered in a syringe. The moms were carefully supervised and the feeds were delivered in a supportive, supervised environment. The 5% threshold is kind of ridiculous as that's well within normal - so "saving" normal babies rather than offering proper information is kind of an unethical choice, IMO.

    The danger comes in the sensational headlines (provided by all kinds of places, including the Bump) that just delivers the "Supplementation is AWESOME!" message and leads to a 2 oz bottle dumped down a newborn's throat. 

  • image tokenhoser:

    image Nechie122:
    The study had a lot of limitations to it, but I don't think that means it's not worthy of discussion and should be quickly suppressed.

    One thing worth noting is that formula supplementation was limited to the first week of life, and mothers were told to give a small, controlled amount. To Token's point, maybe that IS an example of those mothers receiving more "support" because they were given a plan of action, of sorts, rather than just platitudes to keep going and stick it out till their milk came in. And maybe the takeaway is not that formula is necessarily beneficial but that it isn't harmful to a BFing relationship and it's okay to do what you need to do to get through the rough patches.

    I BFed for 13 months but I quit pumping around the six or seven month mark. As a working mom, I always said that supplementing allowed me to BF as long as I did because it was the best of both worlds. I'm not saying this particular study isn't flawed, but I bet it rings true for a lot of women.

    The babies in this study got really small (appropriately small) amounts of formula delivered in a syringe. The moms were carefully supervised and the feeds were delivered in a supportive, supervised environment. The 5% threshold is kind of ridiculous as that's well within normal - so "saving" normal babies rather than offering proper information is kind of an unethical choice, IMO.

    The danger comes in the sensational headlines (provided by all kinds of places, including the Bump) that just delivers the "Supplementation is AWESOME!" message and leads to a 2 oz bottle dumped down a newborn's throat. 


    I agree the wording and normal weight loss is what bothers me. I did supplement with DS later when pumping at work became too much and I still bf for almost 14 months. There is nothing wrong with supplementing, it's the way this study only used 40 babies, says 5 weight loss is bad, and the way the media is reporting it.


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