October 2012 Moms

Let's get political...

Mobile: Let's get political...

I think we need to spice this board up a little. It's been a while since we really got into it.

Today, the NRA proposed putting armed guards in every school. Do you think this would solve the problems and keep our children safe? Or do we need better gun control and mental health assistance? Any thoughts welcome.
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Re: Let's get political...

  • Oh this should be fun. LOL  I say forget the armed guards and let teachers/principals concealed carry.  And in high school, if there's an 18 year old still there, let them carry.  Personally, I cannot wait to get my new holster so I can carry.  I feel a lot safer when I have my gun with me. 

    That said, yes, there does need to be more options for mental health assistance. No idea what to do or how to do it, but it needs to be there. 

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  • My personal initial response was.. We seriously need to put armed guards on our schools to keep our children safe? WTF. Honestly, even though it would probably deter anyone from just showing up to a school to harm children on teachers...is this really what we are coming to?

    I believe in constitutional rights, but do think that weapons meant for war should not be sold to civilians. Done gun control needs to be put on place to make it harder for these people to get their hands on them.

    Also, mental health needs to stop being a stigma. I think a lot of us understand what PPD can do and understand the importance of getting help without feeling like we have failed. The same should go for all people with mental illness.
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  • I work at a University and we have on campus police. We haven't had any major issues but small issues do arise occasionally. But that's what we have police for.

    I'm all for a police presence.  I do believe it does deter most criminals or incidents. It won't be the be all end all solution but i don't think it would hurt. Also this opens up some more jobs for our economy.

    I haven't listened to the NRA speeches yet so i can't comment. 

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  • I think there definitely needs to be better mental health care. I work in mental health and am continually appalled. I also think that mental health is becoming the scapegoat and not all of these people are mentally ill or not treatably mentally ill.
    I hate guns and would love for them to be banned. I think it would only cause more problems to allow school staff to carry weapons. You're just asking for upset students to find a way to get a hold of the gun. And no way of locking them up is going to be fool proof. Having a police liaison would be okay. We had one at my high school.
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  • image Mrschica:
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    I totally agree that states would rather not invest on mental health. I live in Utah, were gun laws are very lax and the mentality is that we are entitled to have whatever we want. I don't know how much we invest on mental health though... Probably not that much.
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  • image mrs.ike:

    Oh this should be fun. LOL  I say forget the armed guards and let teachers/principals concealed carry.  And in high school, if there's an 18 year old still there, let them carry.  Personally, I cannot wait to get my new holster so I can carry.  I feel a lot safer when I have my gun with me. 

    That said, yes, there does need to be more options for mental health assistance. No idea what to do or how to do it, but it needs to be there. 

     

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  • Mental healthcare should be just as accessible and affordable as physical healthcare. More employers and insurance companies should offer these kind of services.
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  • I was just thinking that we usually had a police officer at our school... Isn't there already something set in place like this... Or is it state to state.

    I like what was said about mental health not always being the culprit, but do believe it is most of the time.

    I absolutely do not agree that students in school should be allowed to carry weapons.
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  • image mrs.ike:

    Oh this should be fun. LOL  I say forget the armed guards and let teachers/principals concealed carry.  And in high school, if there's an 18 year old still there, let them carry.  Personally, I cannot wait to get my new holster so I can carry.  I feel a lot safer when I have my gun with me. 

    That said, yes, there does need to be more options for mental health assistance. No idea what to do or how to do it, but it needs to be there. 

    You may feel safer with a gun on you but people around you are more afraid. It may be concealed but most people can see a concealed weapon on someone from a mile away.

    and i don't believe everyone should start bringing guns to school. I don't think that is safe at all. I can see more accidents happening than good. I don't see anything wrong with an armed police officer on campus.

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  • I think there needs to be armed protection throughout the schools.  Not necessarily every teacher, but a few "head security staff" type positions.  It doesn't have to be all guns either....stun guns, tasers, etc.  There is a way to do it with minimal risk.

    A police presence in schools isn't enough.  At the very least, they would need to be plain clothes.  Also it may be necessary to look at the way our schools are designed.  Maybe we need things like fences and guarded/dual level entrances.  It may not look pretty, but it would be safer.  

    In addition we need to change how we handle mental illness.....but that will never be a perfect system because mental illness is so unpredictable.  

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  • My husband and I are responsible gun owners and I do not think banning guns will solve the problem. I think there should be stricter laws however people who want a gun so they can harm someone will find a way to get one no matter what. When theres a will theres a way. Honestly I am not even sure how the laws should be stricter and I think that is what people are struggling with. There are millions of responsible gun owners and then there are the stupid people who f**k it all up and hurt people and make it seem that anyone who owns a gun is a bad person, that bothers me.

  • image mbm1983:
    Mental healthcare should be just as accessible and affordable as physical healthcare. More employers and insurance companies should offer
    these kind of services.


    Absolutely.
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  • image ChrisG83:
    My husband and I are responsible gun owners and I do not think banning guns will solve the problem. I think there should be stricter laws however people who want a gun so they can harm someone will find a way to get one no matter what. When theres a will theres a way. Honestly I am not even sure how the laws should be stricter and I think that is what people are struggling with. There are millions of responsible gun owners and then there are the stupid people who fk it all up and hurt people and make it seem that anyone who owns a gun is a bad person, that bothers me.


    I'm not a gun owner and absolutely do not think anyone owning a gun is a bad person. My dad was a law enforcement officer and I grew up with guns in the home. However, do you really think someone should be able to but a weapon that can shoot 6 bullets a second? What is the point of that in any scenario? Safety or hunting? I just don't get why people are so protective of keeping theses types of weapons available to anyone.

    ETA: just to clarify, the 'you' on this post is not pointing directly at you Chris...just generalizong

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  • I think it's complicated.

    1. Mental health care does need to be much more accessible. This is probably the larger of the two issues.

    2. Armed guards is one thing. Teachers with weapons is another. Imagine how many more people will die if folks who are untrained and/or uncomfortable start throwing bullets around in a tense situation. Not to mention that most of those weapons would probably end up in the hands of those intending to do harm. What a mess.

    3. Saying that we shouldn't have gun control because people will still get guns is like saying we shouldn't have speed limits because everyone won't follow them. Suburban kids who want to shoot up schools will have a really hard time finding semi-automatic weapons to do so. Gangsters who are going to shoot each other--not so much, but which one is a bigger issue? For the record, I'm all for folks being able to have rifles and pistols, but I don't know why anyone (aside from police, etc.) needs a war weapon. Is an army going to invade your house?

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  • Of course the staff at schools who would choose to carry should be trained! I'm not saying pass out 9mm with the ID cards. Just allow them to carry their personal guns should they so desire. I'd even be good with having them tested before allowing them to carry. But lets be honest. Would Bad Guy have gotten to so many kids if even one of those staff members was comfortable enough with a gun to carry and be prepared to use it? Not even close.

    And again, I wholeheartedly agree that mental healthcare desperately needs to be more accessible. IMO this issue is NOT about guns. Or it shouldn't be, anyway.

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  • image mrs.ike:
    Would Bad Guy have gotten to so many kids if even one of those staff members was comfortable enough with a gun to carry and be prepared to use it? Not even close.

    You totally have a good point here. But, will more weapons in schools end in more gun violence in the long run, even if it does help with the mass shootings? I have to think so. But I could be wrong. That's uncharted territory for us.

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  • image ellcore:
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    You make me happy.

    Also, the title of this post made me think of Olivia newton johns "lets get physical." And now I can't get it out I my head.

    Ok back to your regularly scheduled debate.
  • Another thing about gun control....I think a gun permit should be like a drivers license...you have to renew and get re-screened periodically.  Also I think there should be mandatory storage requirements.

    In this case, if the mother hadn't gotten shot - I think she should've been held fullly responsible for his crimes as they were her guns.

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  • in the time the amendment was written, it was a possibility for the government to invade your home. Now not much so.

    I don't think anyone is saying we should ban all guns. The truth of the matter is that there ARE millions of responsible gun owners. the other truth is we never know who is going to snap and kill someone (or many people) senselessly. How do we limit these incidences?

    Mental health screenings when purchasing a gun i think will be useless and the cost will be more than they are worth. A lot of people who use guns to hurt people would pass a screening at the time of purchase. 

    I don't think you can truly get rid of guns without getting rid of violence. The threat of violence makes most people want to own a gun. And I'm sorry, but we are human. We are emotional, and sometimes we are violent. Perhaps more education on how to handle our emotions and non-violent teaching at a young age would help?

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  • My mom is a teacher and would quit after all these years if there were guns in the schools.  There are plenty a wonderful teachers who have family with issues (my brother for one) who could gain access to those guns and hurt themselves and others with those guns intended to protect.  After all this is what Nancy Lanza thought her guns were for, instead she was shot 4 times in the head with them by her own child whom she once cradled as a baby.  

    More guns means more people who should not have guns will have access to them. Period.

    I want strict gun laws.  No semi automatic weapons, no more long clips. Only very limited places to buy guns, all private party sales would have to go through these strictly controlled and monitored places.  Bullet sales would be closely monitored and limited. All gun owners would need to be licensed to own a gun.  This would include home visits to check on gun storage safety, safety classes, thorough background checks, drug tests, Including mental illness and also including checks for persons living in the same home.You guns can be taken away and you be awarded a fine if you fail licensing requirements.

    I grew up with guns, I know how to shoot, I've taken safety classes, my dad is a gun collector, I still feel this way. On a side note so does my dad, who is in law enforcement and knows that even a well trained person is much more likely to be shot with their own gun.  And know first hand how difficult it is to protect yourself with a gun. The perp always has the upper hand due to the power of surprise.

    To add, my cousins 4 year old son was just killed last summer when he picked up a gun that a visitor with a conceal and carry permit brought into the home.  The that sweet baby shot himself. I believe the more people you give guns to=the more idiots you give guns to. 

     

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  • image mrs.ike:
    Oh this should be fun. LOLnbsp; I say forget the armed guards and let teachers/principals concealed carry.nbsp; And in high school, if there's an 18 year old still there, let them carry.nbsp; Personally, I cannot wait to get my new holster so I can carry.nbsp; I feel a lot safer when I have my gun with me.nbsp;
    That said, yes, there does need to be more options for mental health assistance. No idea what to do or how to do it, but it needs to be there.nbsp;


    Have you met an 18 year old lately?!!!!??
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  • image navyviolet:
    My mom is a teacher and would quit after all these years if there were guns in the schools. nbsp;There are plenty a wonderful teachers who have family with issues my brother for one who could gain access to those guns and hurt themselves and others with those guns intended to protect. nbsp;After all this is what Nancy Lanza thought her guns were for, instead she was shot 4 times in the head with them by her own child whom she once cradled as a baby. nbsp;More guns means more people who should not have guns will have access to them. Period.I want strict gun laws. nbsp;No semi automatic weapons, no more long clips. Only very limited places to buy guns, all private party sales would have to go through these strictly controlled and monitored places. nbsp;Bullet sales would be closely monitored and limited. All gun owners would need to benbsp;licensednbsp;to own a gun. nbsp;This would include home visits to check on gun storage safety, safety classes,nbsp;thoroughnbsp;background checks, drug tests, Including mental illness and also including checks for persons living in the same home.You guns can be taken away and you be awarded a fine if you fail licensing requirements.I grew up with guns, I know how to shoot, I've taken safety classes, my dad is a gun collector, I still feel this way. On a side note so does my dad, who is in law enforcement and knows that even a well trained person is much more likely to be shot withnbsp;theirnbsp;own gun. nbsp;And know first hand how difficult it is to protect yourself with a gun. The perp always has the upper hand due to the power of surprise.To add, my cousins 4 year old son was just killed last summer when he picked up a gun that a visitor with anbsp;concealnbsp;and carry permit brought into the home. nbsp;The that sweet baby shot himself. I believe the more people you give guns to=the more idiots you give guns to.nbsp;nbsp;


    Well said. I am so sorry about your cousin. I just read a great editorial on this that called out our culture of violence and that people will kill if they want to, but boy there would be a lot less carnage with knives and baseball bats. You can't stop a killer but if they didn't have easy access to war weapons they wouldn't be as deadly.
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  • I work in a gun shop, I see dozens of guns leave everyday. Quite a few people I know carry concealed, and I absolutly feel safer with them around. I know the training they need to get the permit, I even know the instuctors. I know that me or anyother employee has the right to rufuse a firearm to anyperson we feel is unfit or is acting agitated, and we have. A background check is called before any firearm is sold, handguns need a permit from the sheriff of the county you live in. Ammo cannot be sold to anyone under 18 and handgun ammo under 21. Automatic weapons are banned, no one needs full auto.  Banning other guns, rifles, shotguns and handguns is just plain unconstitutional. There is nothing wrong with buying ARs. Maybe instead of blaming the guns and their sellers, we should go after the people who are selling the parts to make them fully automatic. Even if you ban them people will still find a way. My hunting rifles might not unload as quickly but can still do alot of damage. Shotguns could do more damage in a crowd than an AR, you could take out 10 people with one round of buckshot. As sad as it is tragedies will always happen as long as there are evil people in the world. No gun ban will ever stop it.
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  • A gun in the desk of every teacher. No way. Scares the hell out of me.

    An armed resource officer/police officer on each campus - totally cool with. 

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  • image ChrisG83:
    My husband and I are responsible gun owners and I do not think banning guns will solve the problem. I think there should be stricter laws however people who want a gun so they can harm someone will find a way to get one no matter what. When theres a will theres a way. Honestly I am not even sure how the laws should be stricter and I think that is what people are struggling with. There are millions of responsible gun owners and then there are the stupid people who fk it all up and hurt people and make it seem that anyone who owns a gun is a bad person, that bothers me.


    This.
    Both DH and I have CCW permits, we are responsible gun owners. I carry almost all the time, except at work, I wish I could there, and no one would ever know. I don't do this for my self confidence, this is for the protection of us and our family. Why should you not be able to put up a fight against someone determined to cause you harm.
    Illegal or not, people will get their hands on whatever kind of weapon they choose. Drugs are illegal, you don't see that problem going away anytime soon due to new laws.
    As Americans, we live a pretty sheltered life. We take advantage of our freedoms and feel we are safe from harm, both from foreign enemies and those who walk the same streets. We place a lot of faith in our governments to protect us. Many of us have not, thank God, seen what can happen when those types of protections turn on their own citizens. Please don't think that I'm some conspiracy crack pot but when you look at places like Bosnia, Macedonia, those places unarmed their citizens and they were no longer able to protect themselves from the people they trusted. Horrible crimes were perpetrated against their own people.
    As for mental health, there does need to be reform. But, even with increased money and services, you can't make these people take their medications or follow up with services.
    Do I think there should be armed officers in a school? My only answer is that there probably would have been a different outcome to last Fridays tragedy if there would have been one present. Is it sad that we have come to that? Absolutely.

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  • There is a school district in Texas that is allowing their teachers to conceal carry in school. Their board passed this prior to last Friday. They have to go through extra training and classes.
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