2nd Trimester

Vaccines

Could some of you please share your thoughts with me on when you will be vaccinating your babies, the more and more I read, we are thinking we will vaccinate our child when they are "two and talking"

Thoughts please? Do any of you know if vaccines are required for infant day care?

 

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Re: Vaccines

  • I will be vaccinating according to my doctor's recommendations. I think each daycare would have it's own guidelines on vaccinations. You'll probably have to check with the one(s) you are considering.
  • I am vaccinating my son according to the CDC schedule. I trust my pediatrician, the CDC, and the WHO. As a bonus, his day care requires updated vaccines, which I love.
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  • I am not sure if they are required for day care but I am planning on vaccinating on a spread out schedule since I am wary vaccines in general.  I haven't gotten too heavy into my research but I am planning on doing research on both sides. 

    I have found that a lot of the anti-vax things I have read seem very one sided, like they are trying to get a very stringent anti-vax agenda across.  I would prefer to read something that presents both pros and cons or isn't written like vaccines are 100% bad.  I do see the good in them and I will vax my child close to what is on schedule. I will definitely vax before age 2.

    If anyone has any unbiased, factual sources please share!


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    BFP #1: 7/10/2012 .... DS Born: 2/26/2013
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  • Every daycare in my state requires updated vaccinations, no exceptions.

     

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  • image PinkRoses53:

    I am not sure if they are required for day care but I am planning on vaccinating on a spread out schedule since I am wary vaccines in general.  I haven't gotten too heavy into my research but I am planning on doing research on both sides. 

    I have found that a lot of the anti-vax things I have read seem very one sided, like they are trying to get a very stringent anti-vax agenda across.  I would prefer to read something that presents both pros and cons or isn't written like vaccines are 100% bad.  I do see the good in them and I will vax my child.  I just need to figure out what the best schedule for us will be.

    If anyone has any unbiased, factual sources please share!

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm


    TTC #1
    Off BCP 2/2010
    Charting since 9/2010
    Dx: Unexplained IF, Hashimoto's
    June 2011 to August 2011: 3 IUIs = BFFN
    Treatment break until Oct/Nov 2011 then moving on to IVF.
    Scratch that. We're moving to adoption!
    11/10/11 Officially matched
    11/18/11 Our little stinker was born!
    3/7/12 Surprise BFP! 4/13/12 missed m/c and D&C at 8w
    BFP#2 6/17/12 EDD 2/25/13
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  • Vaccine requirements will vary depending on the daycare/state, so as another poster mentioned, you'll need to contact the ones you are interested in to determine their policy. We follow an alternate (spread-out) schedule with DS and will do so with this baby as well.  We do 2 shots at a time, but he has had all of the recommended vaccines with the exception of the Hep B.  We also delayed the MMR (but he has had it).  You need to do your research and do what you feel is best.
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  • image moosegal:
    image PinkRoses53:

    I am not sure if they are required for day care but I am planning on vaccinating on a spread out schedule since I am wary vaccines in general.  I haven't gotten too heavy into my research but I am planning on doing research on both sides. 

    I have found that a lot of the anti-vax things I have read seem very one sided, like they are trying to get a very stringent anti-vax agenda across.  I would prefer to read something that presents both pros and cons or isn't written like vaccines are 100% bad.  I do see the good in them and I will vax my child.  I just need to figure out what the best schedule for us will be.

    If anyone has any unbiased, factual sources please share!

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm

    Anything not from the government?  I am sometimes wary of what the government says is safe (I know, I know).  I would love to read other third party sources. 


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    BFP #1: 7/10/2012 .... DS Born: 2/26/2013
    TTC #2: 5/2014
    BFP #2: 7/8/2014 .... MC at 4w4d
    BFP #3: 9/14/2014...EDD 5/30/2015


  • image moosegal:
    image PinkRoses53:

    I am not sure if they are required for day care but I am planning on vaccinating on a spread out schedule since I am wary vaccines in general.  I haven't gotten too heavy into my research but I am planning on doing research on both sides. 

    I have found that a lot of the anti-vax things I have read seem very one sided, like they are trying to get a very stringent anti-vax agenda across.  I would prefer to read something that presents both pros and cons or isn't written like vaccines are 100% bad.  I do see the good in them and I will vax my child.  I just need to figure out what the best schedule for us will be.

    If anyone has any unbiased, factual sources please share!

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm

     

    LOL.  The CDC is hardly unbiased.

    We use an alternative schedule.  He gets all vaccines but not so many at once.  We did not do hep B at birth.

    Not sure if it matters to you but the older your child gets, the tougher it is to give shots.  They're a piece of cake when they're babies but as toddlers, they start to look at you like "Mommy, why are you doing this to me?"  Kills me.  Not saying that should sway your decision (hell, who likes getting shots?)... Just something to think about.

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  • image mabenner1:
    I am vaccinating my son according to the CDC schedule. I trust my pediatrician, the CDC, and the WHO.

    This.  Why would "two and talking" be your reason?  FWIW, not all two year olds speak in fluent sentences. 

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  • image drpayne:
    image moosegal:
    image PinkRoses53:

    I am not sure if they are required for day care but I am planning on vaccinating on a spread out schedule since I am wary vaccines in general.  I haven't gotten too heavy into my research but I am planning on doing research on both sides. 

    I have found that a lot of the anti-vax things I have read seem very one sided, like they are trying to get a very stringent anti-vax agenda across.  I would prefer to read something that presents both pros and cons or isn't written like vaccines are 100% bad.  I do see the good in them and I will vax my child.  I just need to figure out what the best schedule for us will be.

    If anyone has any unbiased, factual sources please share!

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm

     

    LOL.  The CDC is hardly unbiased.

    We use an alternative schedule.  He gets all vaccines but not so many at once.  We did not do hep B at birth.

    Not sure if it matters to you but the older your child gets, the tougher it is to give shots.  They're a piece of cake when they're babies but as toddlers, they start to look at you like "Mommy, why are you doing this to me?"  Kills me.  Not saying that should sway your decision (hell, who likes getting shots?)... Just something to think about.

    Well, if you're going to nit pick, is there really *any* unbiased source for vaccines out there? I trust the factual information presented by the CDC and use it to help me form my opinion on how we vaccinate our kids. 


    TTC #1
    Off BCP 2/2010
    Charting since 9/2010
    Dx: Unexplained IF, Hashimoto's
    June 2011 to August 2011: 3 IUIs = BFFN
    Treatment break until Oct/Nov 2011 then moving on to IVF.
    Scratch that. We're moving to adoption!
    11/10/11 Officially matched
    11/18/11 Our little stinker was born!
    3/7/12 Surprise BFP! 4/13/12 missed m/c and D&C at 8w
    BFP#2 6/17/12 EDD 2/25/13
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  • image moosegal:
    image drpayne:
    image moosegal:
    image PinkRoses53:

    I am not sure if they are required for day care but I am planning on vaccinating on a spread out schedule since I am wary vaccines in general.  I haven't gotten too heavy into my research but I am planning on doing research on both sides. 

    I have found that a lot of the anti-vax things I have read seem very one sided, like they are trying to get a very stringent anti-vax agenda across.  I would prefer to read something that presents both pros and cons or isn't written like vaccines are 100% bad.  I do see the good in them and I will vax my child.  I just need to figure out what the best schedule for us will be.

    If anyone has any unbiased, factual sources please share!

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm

     

    LOL.  The CDC is hardly unbiased.

    We use an alternative schedule.  He gets all vaccines but not so many at once.  We did not do hep B at birth.

    Not sure if it matters to you but the older your child gets, the tougher it is to give shots.  They're a piece of cake when they're babies but as toddlers, they start to look at you like "Mommy, why are you doing this to me?"  Kills me.  Not saying that should sway your decision (hell, who likes getting shots?)... Just something to think about.

    Well, if you're going to nit pick, is there really *any* unbiased source for vaccines out there? I trust the factual information presented by the CDC and use it to help me form my opinion on how we vaccinate our kids. 

     

    ??? That's not nit-picking.  The CDC is pro-vaccine.  I never said unbiased sources were easy to come by because they aren't.  Some people want more info than just "because the CDC said so."  They want both sides. 

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  • I will also be vaccinating.  I'm not big on debating these issues, my logic has always been... I turned out fine. 

    *** DS born February 21, 2013 - Toronto, Canada  ***
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  • image happy_un-bride:

    I will also be vaccinating.  I'm not big on debating these issues, my logic has always been... I turned out fine. 

    We vaccinate, too... so don't think I'm trying to convince you otherwise.  BUT, it is worth comparing the number of vaccines you received as a child to the number now recommended.  It's increased dramatically.  I think that's part of the reason people question the necessity of every single vaccine.

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  • We vaccinated my DD and will with this LO too. We were anti schedule and She only recieved two at a time. My Pedi was very accomodating and understood why we were doing it that way.
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  • I have not read the book yet but my friend highly recommends the book "the panic virus" by Seth mnookin for a thorough unbiased report on vaccines.
  • image drpayne:
    image moosegal:
    image drpayne:
    image moosegal:
    image PinkRoses53:

    I am not sure if they are required for day care but I am planning on vaccinating on a spread out schedule since I am wary vaccines in general.  I haven't gotten too heavy into my research but I am planning on doing research on both sides. 

    I have found that a lot of the anti-vax things I have read seem very one sided, like they are trying to get a very stringent anti-vax agenda across.  I would prefer to read something that presents both pros and cons or isn't written like vaccines are 100% bad.  I do see the good in them and I will vax my child.  I just need to figure out what the best schedule for us will be.

    If anyone has any unbiased, factual sources please share!

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm

     

    LOL.  The CDC is hardly unbiased.

    We use an alternative schedule.  He gets all vaccines but not so many at once.  We did not do hep B at birth.

    Not sure if it matters to you but the older your child gets, the tougher it is to give shots.  They're a piece of cake when they're babies but as toddlers, they start to look at you like "Mommy, why are you doing this to me?"  Kills me.  Not saying that should sway your decision (hell, who likes getting shots?)... Just something to think about.

    Well, if you're going to nit pick, is there really *any* unbiased source for vaccines out there? I trust the factual information presented by the CDC and use it to help me form my opinion on how we vaccinate our kids. 

     

    ??? That's not nit-picking.  The CDC is pro-vaccine.  I never said unbiased sources were easy to come by because they aren't.  Some people want more info than just "because the CDC said so."  They want both sides. 


    The fact that the CDC is "pro-vaccine" doesn't mean it's biased.  You're confusing "biased" with "neutral".  A biased source would be, for example, a pharmaceutical company that stands to make money from the vaccines.  The CDC is not biased...it has done extensive research and has to come to the conclusion, based on sound science, that vaccines are safe.  The CDC doesn't get paid for coming to a particular conclusion about whether something is safe.  The reason there aren't very many "neutral" sources is because the science behind the anti-vax movement is so weak. 

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  • I would talk to a pediatrician about this. 

    I know that at the daycares in our area that we looked at, there is no way a baby would be admitted without being vaccinated.  I understand you are concerned about the risks of the vaccines, but also be aware of the risks of being unvaccinated and very young.  Your child also becomes a risk as a potential carrier to other children who have not been vaccinated yet, either do to age or health reasons.

    And I second the PP, shots when DS was younger were so much easier.

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  • It is NOT biased for a consortium of scientists to make recommendations.  If when we look at all the peer-reviewed scientific literature and find overwhelming evidence that vaccines are not harmful but that the resurgence of diseases cause by individuals failing to vaccinate is a series public health crisis that could affect your child, this is science.  To say that mama's intuition or what you feel is right is the way to make a decision about this is maddening.  Of course you feel fear when you hear myths purported by stars or others grasping at explanations and cures for scary problems--but these people do not have science on their side...moreover, people who get paid for writing books or providing solutions for scary problems are preying on fear and deeply immoral. The only study that was peer reviewed that supported anti-vac fears was shown to be fabricated and was based on very few individuals and weak evidence in the first place.  The journal revoked publication.   Scientists and doctors often serve on commissions without pay for their recommendations and without an agenda.  You may want to hear from "both sides" but although the media may present every issue as 2-sided, there simply isn't scientific support on the side of not vaccinating on time.  It is uneducated, naive, selfish, and deeply immoral to put children who may not be able to get vaccinated for real health reasons at risk of deadly diseases because one subscribes to the fear-based agenda of a few loud but ignorant voices.  
  • image Juelsr:

    I would talk to a pediatrician about this. 

    I know that at the daycares in our area that we looked at, there is no way a baby would be admitted without being vaccinated.  I understand you are concerned about the risks of the vaccines, but also be aware of the risks of being unvaccinated and very young.  Your child also becomes a risk as a potential carrier to other children who have not been vaccinated yet, either do to age or health reasons.

    And I second the PP, shots when DS was younger were so much easier.

    FYI, although many day cares require proof of vaccination, a simple waiver means people can skip them.   There used to be a requirement for religious exemption, etc.  Now, I don't even think parents have to give a reason aside from just not wanting to vaccinate.  This may vary by state (I'm in TX.).  I would just be careful assuming that just because they ask you for proof of vaccinations that they somehow require them.

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  • image happy_un-bride:

    I will also be vaccinating.  I'm not big on debating these issues, my logic has always been... I turned out fine. 

    I turned out fine and didn't have a single vaccination until I was 25 and got a flu shot and Rubella. 

     

    We vaccinate our son but we look at the information on likelihood of coming into contact with it and weigh it against the risk of the actual vaccine. We also spread them out a little bit so that he doesn't get more than two shots at a time. For the most part he's gotten all of his shots except for a couple during his infant stage that we didn't feel the risk of exposure was high enough to justify the risk of complication. 

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  • image bethparr1979:
    image drpayne:
    image moosegal:
    image drpayne:
    image moosegal:
    image PinkRoses53:

    I am not sure if they are required for day care but I am planning on vaccinating on a spread out schedule since I am wary vaccines in general.  I haven't gotten too heavy into my research but I am planning on doing research on both sides. 

    I have found that a lot of the anti-vax things I have read seem very one sided, like they are trying to get a very stringent anti-vax agenda across.  I would prefer to read something that presents both pros and cons or isn't written like vaccines are 100% bad.  I do see the good in them and I will vax my child.  I just need to figure out what the best schedule for us will be.

    If anyone has any unbiased, factual sources please share!

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm

     

    LOL.  The CDC is hardly unbiased.

    We use an alternative schedule.  He gets all vaccines but not so many at once.  We did not do hep B at birth.

    Not sure if it matters to you but the older your child gets, the tougher it is to give shots.  They're a piece of cake when they're babies but as toddlers, they start to look at you like "Mommy, why are you doing this to me?"  Kills me.  Not saying that should sway your decision (hell, who likes getting shots?)... Just something to think about.

    Well, if you're going to nit pick, is there really *any* unbiased source for vaccines out there? I trust the factual information presented by the CDC and use it to help me form my opinion on how we vaccinate our kids. 

     

    ??? That's not nit-picking.  The CDC is pro-vaccine.  I never said unbiased sources were easy to come by because they aren't.  Some people want more info than just "because the CDC said so."  They want both sides. 


    The fact that the CDC is "pro-vaccine" doesn't mean it's biased.  You're confusing "biased" with "neutral".  A biased source would be, for example, a pharmaceutical company that stands to make money from the vaccines.  The CDC is not biased...it has done extensive research and has to come to the conclusion, based on sound science, that vaccines are safe.  The CDC doesn't get paid for coming to a particular conclusion about whether something is safe.  The reason there aren't very many "neutral" sources is because the science behind the anti-vax movement is so weak. 

     

    Actually, the credibility of the CDC has been criticized a lot in the past few years.  There have been accusations of research manipulation and fraud.  Their own scientists have come forward.  There have also been CDC-endorsed vaccines that were pulled off the market after some patients experienced side effects (some died).  Some members of the CDC Vaccine Advisory Committee DO get money from vaccine manufacturers (the same goes for the WHO).  I'm not a conspiracy theorist, nor am I anti-vax.  I'm just saying I don't blame people for wanting to find other sources of information.  The worst thing you can do blindly accept truth from any one source.

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  • No, "the credibility of the CDC" is not in question.  Instead, as regular practice, individuals and recommendations are constantly questioned, as this is what we do as scientists and the concerned public--this is good!  With a large consortium of scientists doing thousands of studies on disease under the critical eye of federal funding agencies and the public, discussion of ethics and funding sources are always at the forefront, and there may be an occasional misstep.  If a scientist who has devoted her life to developing vaccines is one of the world's best experts, she might have been funded by a vaccine company at one point, and that we know that and consider it when asking her to serve on a panel is great.  But there is no general view that the CDC as a whole is not credible or that federal studies and recommendations can't be trusted. There is no motive for CDC scientists to provide misinformation.  No bias. However, anyone can publish a book or write a website, and these people do not receive peer evaluation and may have strong biases we don't know about.  Look at the WHO vac schedule if you'd prefer (of course there's not a big discussion of all the anti-vac nonsense b/c the rest of the world would be really happy if they could get vaccines).  Or consider what the American Medical Association (just a big group of doctors) has to say: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/public-health/vaccination-resources/pediatric-vaccination.page?.  Or look at the NIH page: http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/vaccines/understanding/pages/vaccinebenefits.aspx
  • And just to follow up, it does not work to "look at the risk of getting the disease" and try to balance that with perceived vaccine risk.  The way "herd immunity" works is that your community does have the disease because when one person gets it, it can't spread since enough people are immune (from vaccination).  The reason old diseases are emerging in the US is that so many people won't get vaccinated because of unreasonable fear of vaccines.  This puts newborn babies and other people who can't get vaccinated at risk of dying from horrible diseases.  You can say, "well, my kid has a healthy immune system and won't get sick" but that doesn't make you a good person since you're willing to let others die.  And, it may not be true--some diseases kill healthy kids.
  • image brachysira:
    No, "the credibility of the CDC" is not in question.  Instead, as regular practice, individuals and recommendations are constantly questioned, as this is what we do as scientists and the concerned public--this is good!  With a large consortium of scientists doing thousands of studies on disease under the critical eye of federal funding agencies and the public, discussion of ethics and funding sources are always at the forefront, and there may be an occasional misstep.  If a scientist who has devoted her life to developing vaccines is one of the world's best experts, she might have been funded by a vaccine company at one point, and that we know that and consider it when asking her to serve on a panel is great.  But there is no general view that the CDC as a whole is not credible or that federal studies and recommendations can't be trusted. There is no motive for CDC scientists to provide misinformation.  No bias. However, anyone can publish a book or write a website, and these people do not receive peer evaluation and may have strong biases we don't know about.  Look at the WHO vac schedule if you'd prefer (of course there's not a big discussion of all the anti-vac nonsense b/c the rest of the world would be really happy if they could get vaccines).  Or consider what the American Medical Association (just a big group of doctors) has to say: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/public-health/vaccination-resources/pediatric-vaccination.page?.  Or look at the NIH page: http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/vaccines/understanding/pages/vaccinebenefits.aspx

     

    No motivation? Seriously?  How about money? CDC and WHO advisors are financially tied to vaccine companies.  They sometimes share vaccine patents, own stock in vaccine companies, take payments for research/academic funding etc.  How is that not motivation?  The same advisors decide when to declare a pandemic (like H1N1).  I'm not saying they're all bad or that they're all corrupt.  Even scientists who have witnessed/spoken out about the corruption at the CDC admit that it's not representative of the entire organization... that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  I'm saying the financial ties DO exist and a are major conflict of interest.  There are politics involved, whether people want to admit it or not.  I take the same stance with the FDA.  All that means is that I read labels as opposed to just assuming that if I can but it in a store, then it must be safe. 

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  • image brachysira:
    And just to follow up, it does not work to "look at the risk of getting the disease" and try to balance that with perceived vaccine risk.  The way "herd immunity" works is that your community does have the disease because when one person gets it, it can't spread since enough people are immune (from vaccination).  The reason old diseases are emerging in the US is that so many people won't get vaccinated because of unreasonable fear of vaccines.  This puts newborn babies and other people who can't get vaccinated at risk of dying from horrible diseases.  You can say, "well, my kid has a healthy immune system and won't get sick" but that doesn't make you a good person since you're willing to let others die.  And, it may not be true--some diseases kill healthy kids.

    Hopping in at the tail-end of this, but excellent point. The reason we have chosen to vaccinate against these particular diseases is that their incubation period, reproductive rate, and course of disease are shorter than the period needed for a successful primary immune response to be mounted by the body. It doesn't matter how healthy you are, a primary immune response takes 7-10 days to mount an attack on the antigen (disease). That time is too long in the cases of many diseases, as many are already at their most severe, or they have been shed to others before the affected individual becomes symptomatic. (This is why keeping sick kids at home doesn't work.)

    The purpose of vaccines is to prepare the body with that primary immune response, as a secondary immune response (elicited by immune memory) is both stronger and faster. This allows the body to recognize and defeat the antigen during the incubation period and, hopefully, prevent shedding of the disease.

    For example, I was a perfectly healthy kid at 12-- I was an athlete, was never "sick," got enough sleep, and ate a balanced diet. The flu almost killed me and left me with permanent lung damage (inflammation) that, even with medication, has decreased my lung capacity.

    ETA: The point of my story was to say that overall health has very little to do with how these diseases can run their course.


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  • Since much funding for health research comes from companies, many top scientists have been funded at some point in their careers from a company.  Others have not.  When panels are developed, this information is considered.  Potential biases are discussed and aired. Some people may not be selected due to ties.  After panel decisions come out, other scientists not on the panel weigh in and provide review and criticism. Different panels do additional reviews.  Information is changed when it is bad. This is science, and this is what we have to make decisions.  The information in favor of vaccinating is overwhelming and from multiple sources and there is no suggestion of risk.  Considering Jenny McCarty or some website as an equivalent source is crazy.  You can read the peer-reviewed scientific literature yourself, and if you want to, great.  But, as you say, biases in the CDC are not widespread, and we can trust scientists to read and summarize the literature for us if we can't get through the millions of articles ourselves.

     Vaccines are not the same as some FDA-allowed supplement or similar because there are not copious studies, panels, and international evidence all pointing in favor of using the supplement.  Yes, we need to consider what we put in our bodies, but in the case of vaccines, the evidence is strongly in favor. 

  • I have and will continue to vaccinate my children with all standard vaccines according to standard schedules. Oregon state does require vaccination be completed on time for both daycare facilities and public school, unless a parent claims medical or religious exemption. Children who are not vaccinated can be excluded from school attendance during any period of an outbreak for a virus or bacteria that child has not been vaccinated against (though I greatly appreciate this standard, I would have fully vax'd my children with or without it). My grandparents lost siblings and children to diseases that could easily have been prevented by the vaccines we have now. The hype and conspiracy nonsense thrown about over vaccines are not justified by the few studies that show extremely small risks to a child's health. No delays, no exemptions. Unless one of my children has a bad reaction to a vaccine, they will all continue to receive everything on schedule for as long as I am responsible for their health.

    I can only hope that enough parents in my region continue to vaccinate to prevent the unnecessary spread of these diseases to viable hosts, where they then have the opportunity to multiply and mutate into new strains. Irresponsible people who want to allow pertussis to thrive are developing new strains inside of the bodies of their children, allowing strains that we haven't developed vaccines against to evolve and infect our vaccinated children. The unvaccinated community will also be prohibited from being around my boys until they are at least 6 months old and finished with their first series of DTaP.

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  • image Tigger & pooh:
    ... "the panic virus" by Seth mnookin for a thorough unbiased report on vaccines.

     THIS! I saw him give a keynote address last year and have read his book. Incredibly thought provoking and about as unbiased as it gets. Of course, the problem with calling something "unbiased" is that people tend to feel something is "biased" if they don't agree with it. 

    I work at the #1 children's hospital in the US. We are asked this question on a daily basis. I regularly refer people to an article by Dr. Paul Offit- he's about as good as it will get when it comes to immunologists.  

     Here's a link to his response to Dr. Sear's alternative vaccination schedule as published in "Pediatrics". Its free to read and download. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/123/1/e164.full

    I will be vaccinating my child on the recommendations of many many many professionals, agencies, and groups- all of which have determined that there are far more risks of not vaccinating than doing so. I encourage others to gather peer-reviewed, scientifically founded research to make their personal decision.  

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