Breastfeeding

This is the breastfeeding board, right?

So while we should always be respectful,

It should be a no-brainer that we shouldn't have to tiptoe around the benefits of breastfeeding and breastmilk on posts on this board.

Right?

I just get that feeling from a few people that if you say anything good about breastmilk,

it must come with a disclaimer 

"of course if you have low supply and need to use formula that formula is ok and perfect for your situation and that is not what I refer to in my post".

Then and only then are you able to say formula stinks and makes stinky poop.

Surprise

 

The benefits of breastfeeding go way past the choice of breast or formula, it's not just a pampers or huggies kind of choice. 

MOST here are around because they do understand it's good stuff, and often they are here to get help.  We do our best to help.

Oh and many many times our advice is goin to counteract the advice of your pediatrician.

and yep, we don't have the medical degree, so you should probably take our advice with a grain of salt.

But after almost 13 years of giving breastfeeding advice, there is a LOT that I personally know about breastfeeding that most pediatricians haven't a clue.  It's not part of their normal course of training. 

And if they do get some training in school, that book knowledge does not stack up to the THOUSANDS of years of real life mom's knowledge that we have here on this board and boards like it across the internet. 

 

I won't apologize for being a strong supporter of breastfeeding and believing that breastmilk is the best choice for EVERY baby.  

Of course as moms we often make choices that are second best. Can't afford the top of the line car seat, so you get the best that you can.  Can't afford to stay home with baby, or gasp don't want to, or you work for the health insurance in the family, so you get the best caregiver you can--but it may not be the live-in nanny that takes care of baby and makes dinner too. Can't afford or live too far from the "best" school so you get the best you can in your neighborhood and sometimes you settle for less and you do some home extra practice or hire a tutor or whatever to make it work.

But shouldn't we strive hard to get the best within reason?

 

AmyG*

I don't type posts; I type novels.

I don't get tags, sorry.

«1

Re: This is the breastfeeding board, right?

  • I'm right there with you. I have a hard time with a lot of the supply posts. 

    My son lost 22oz in his first 10 days. Once the issue was discovered, I had to supplement for 3 days while I pumped for 16 hours a day and I supplemented with donor breast milk.  

    I now have to power pump for 3 hours a day in order to maintain supply along with taking herbs, eating tons of different foods, tracking calories, water intake, etc. When Mom's complain and haven't tried every resource out there, I have such a difficult time sympathizing.  I AM doing everything I can to give my son the BEST, because nothing else in this world compares to breast milk. It's what humans make for humans. Nothing is as good.  

    I understand that there are woman out there who can not breast feed their children, but not the amount that are popping on this board. The amount of woman who can't truly breast feed is so minimal. There's just a lot of people not willing to put in all of their effort.  

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  • Yes AmyG
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  • Yes

    Another thumbs up for AmyG! 

    And DS has had formula.  Way more than a few times.  He had some tonight because I was running late and he'd drunk all the pumped milk. 

    But he gets 95-99% BM and I am proud of that! 

    I have 2 sisters-in-law who are or will (1 is pregnant, 1 has a 2 week old) BF partly because of my influence.  And I am proud of that too. 

    This board is all about supporting BFing, and for the most part I think that's what we do. 

    I personally have learned SO much and received SO much encouragement from this board! 

     

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  • Hey I nursed my two for 50 months total. and both of mine had formula. My youngest had formula before he was a week old, and it was't because I didn't have enough milk. I chose to send him home with my mom with some pumped milk and a lot of formula while I recovered without a baby for the night from a D&C.

    AmyG*

    I don't type posts; I type novels.

    I don't get tags, sorry.

  • Eh...I have EBF my daughter for almost 8 months now, so clearly I am committed to BF because I know it is better than formula.

    That said--when I see bad advice being given on this board, I will try to set the record straight (to the extent I have read/learned facts that differ from the ones posted). 

    BM is wonderful.  But its benefits don't need to be artificially inflated to the point of absurdity--like I see on here almost every other day.  (By the same token, its benefits shouldn't be diminished).

    But, I do disagree with people who say that an infant shouldn't receive supplementation when they fall below 10% of their birth weight, or when they have scary high jaundice levels.  I don't know--maybe since my husband is a NICU doc, I have heard about/grieved for babies who didn't get to experience life on this earth nearly long enough.  My husband is very, very pro-BF, but he also believes that overall nutrition is of the utmost importance--and that low birth weight infants are medically fragile.  At that point, it isn't about the parents' "choice" of BF v. FF. It is a medical issue and the baby has a right to be fed sufficiently so that he or she can maintain their health.  Those situations are the ones that I comment on--to give a parent the knowledge that yes, they can supplement for a few days or a few weeks, and that won't preclude their BF relationship, as long as they take appropriate steps to maintain their supply.

    I am not going to stop posting, just because some people want to present an image of BF as all puppies and rainbows, and if it doesn't work for you--you must be doing something wrong.  That just isn't my thing.  BF is hard.  It absolutely sucked for the first 3 weeks and hurt every freaking time she nursed to the point of tears (despite having a certified "perfect" latch!)  But then it did get easier for me.  Until I started back to work, and my supply dropped like crazy.  If I didn't work in a law firm where I can lock the door to my office and pump for approx. 80 minutes a day, I wouldn't be able to continue EBF-ing, even though I do "everything right."  I empathize with moms who have to supplement with formula--and the research I have performed and analyzed says that supplementing up to 10% with formula causes NO differences in overall health between EBF and supplemented babies.  So, I will continue to make sure that other people know this peer-reviewed and important info.  It isn't an all or nothing deal.  It is a means of nutrition.  It isn't a religion.  That is my story and I am sticking to it :)

  • Ah your husband is an NICU doctor. totally explains the strongly held opinions about formula. 

    In my opinion NICU doctors are often very stringent supporters of formula, very few really see the value in breastfeeding a "medically fragile" baby, even when it is medically acceptable or preferred to do so. Also explains why adding formula to breastmilk didn't even ping on your radar.  FYI NICU nurses are usually worse about not being very accepting or friendly toward  breastfeeding.

     

    this was not "just" directed to you Sooner.

    But if the shoe fit fine,

    or of course you can work hard to cram your foot into it if the shoe doesn't quite fit--- if you'd like. Wink

    AmyG*

    I don't type posts; I type novels.

    I don't get tags, sorry.

  • I think the disclaimer is necessary because no one wants the guilt of giving advice and having a baby starve because of it. Some people treat EBF as a badge to wear at all costs and seem to forget it's about making sure they have a healthy, happy and well fed baby. I am talking about the posts where a baby hasn't regained birthweight, a dr has recommended supplementing, etc. yes, it is rare that a woman can't breastfeed, but the small percent that can't are probably here hoping for answers.

  • Haha...AmyG, your biases are so closely held, that even all the evidence in the world wouldn't sway you.

    I guess you don't know that at the hospital where he works, they absolutely believe BM is the best for preemies.  They immediately give preemie moms hospital-grade pumps, multiple one-on-one LC sessions, huge freezers to store their milk, daily phone calls to moms at home to encourage them to keep going and help figure out any supply issues.  The babies born to moms who can't pump are given donor BM that has been sterilized.  They take BM VERY seriously for preemies.

    It is laughable how people on this board think that doctors are out to "get" their babies and sabotage their relationships with their babies.  Trust me, my husband doesn't work 80 hour weeks in the NICU so that he can hurt as many babies and parents as he possibly can.  He does it so he can save babies that just a few years ago would have died or had serious impairments.  He does it so he can rescuscitate a blue baby and put him back on his mom's chest and see that moment of pure, unadulterated joy on that mom's face.  He does it because he truly has a heart of gold. 

    You may know a lot of things, but you don't clearly don't know anything about current NICU practices, or else you would never have written what you posted above.   Your "opinion" that NICU doctors don't value BM is baseless and offensive.

  • Sooner, your bias is also showing. Nobody said your husband is trying to hurt or kill babies, eh? 

     

    I suggested to you the other day that if seeing advice on the board bothers you so much that it is killing your soul (or whatever similar phrase you used in a posted reply to someone you disagreed with) perhaps you should step away. 

     

    You can't save all the babies--whether saving them from my advice, or from the advice of well meaning other moms on this board.  I know I can't save them all.  Realize that you think much of my advice comes out of left field.  But I have an instinct for this giving advice online thing.  I can read between the lines pretty well and usually am spot on if there is something going on that means a baby is in trouble, and needs formula, or if a baby just needs a bit more time to gain weight or whatever the issue is.  That comes with experience, and I have it whether you like it or not.

    I also believe that breastmilk is the perfect food, and that it is able to do more than we have even scratched the surface to understand.  there are ingredients in breastmilk that we do not know what they do.  we think they do this or that or maybe they do that or this.  Every year there is another study that shows hey guess what about breastmilk's marvels.   

    I bet that your husband does his job well.  and I bet that he understands the advice given to a mom who is breastfeeding an NICU baby is totally different than the advice that should be given to a full term baby who is not sick and in the hospital. but you don't seem to see that line--just because it's an ok practice for the NICU with a premature sick baby, doesn't mean it is ok for the rest of the babies out there that are not sick and premature.

    Also note that new moms while in the NICU do what they have to in order to get baby well enough to go home. And that isn't always breastfeeding friendly practices. While your husband is a saint and your hospital works hard to ensure breastfeeding is well protected, not all NICU doctors and hospitals are the same, eh?  After so many years, I've seen more idiot doctors than I'd ever care to count.  You are lucky if you haven't ever had to deal with a doctor like that.

     

    Most moms on here can tell a tale of a doctor that just didn't know something that is common knowledge for a breastfeeding mom or an IBCLC lactation consultant.

    AmyG*

    I don't type posts; I type novels.

    I don't get tags, sorry.

  • image JWSchwarz:
    I think the disclaimer is necessary because no one wants the guilt of giving advice and having a baby starve because of it. Some people treat EBF as a badge to wear at all costs and seem to forget it's about making sure they have a healthy, happy and well fed baby. I am talking about the posts where a baby hasn't regained birthweight, a dr has recommended supplementing, etc. yes, it is rare that a woman can't breastfeed, but the small percent that can't are probably here hoping for answers.

    You really expect there to be a disclaimer on every single post?  What we do here every single day all day long is give advice on how to fix a breastfeeding problem.  And without taking a full health history, we do not know if ANY of our advice could be potentially hazardous, eh?  It's sort of a buyer beware, if you post for breastfeeding advice and you take that advice, it's on you, not on those giving the advice.

    But realize in almost 13 years of doing this, I've not had any babies starve to death from my advice. 

     

    Especially when most of the time my advice includes counting wet and poopy diapers, increasing fluids and goin to see an IBCLC lactation consultant, which is a breastfeeding professional, ASAP.  Realize ayone can hang up a shingle to be an LC(I can in my state by the way), the IBCLC's are board certified, like when you choose a cardiologist, you'd want a board certified cardiologist, eh? Same thing with the LC's with IBCLC after their name.  They at least have some training, experience hours and testing. Sure occassionally they miss things, depending on their area of expertise.  using the ones who have worked ouside of the hospital/newborn period experience will give you a better chance of success.

     

    I believe the Bump has a similar statement in their terms of service...or it should, eh?

    You understand and agree that theBump.com does not guarantee the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any information provided by members on the message boards. theBump.com is not responsible for any errors or omissions or for the results obtained from the use of such information. The information is provided with the understanding that neither theBump.com nor its members, while such members are participating in theBump.com message boards, are engaged in rendering legal, medical, counseling or other professional services or advice. theBump.com encourages you to seek appropriate professional advice or care for any situation or problem which you may have. theBump.com shall not be responsible for any loss or damage caused, or alleged to have been caused, directly or indirectly, by the information or ideas contained, suggested, or referenced at theBump.com.

    AmyG*

    I don't type posts; I type novels.

    I don't get tags, sorry.

  • Amy--the problem is that very inexperienced, new mothers come to the BF board and they say  "my baby has lost 13% of his birth weight and I really wanted to EBF, but my doctor has said I should supplement.  What should I do."

    Lots of posters on here immediately jump to "Don't listen to your doctor.  He is evil and is bought and paid for by the formula companies.  Instead, just try to nurse more, and it will be okay.  It is normal for babies to lose weight after birth.  Your body was made to feed your baby.  No worries!" 

    The problem is that those posters who just throw up those kinds of "rah, rah" posts are actually dangerous.  They haven't examined the baby in person.  They don't know whether the baby has any co-morbidities or whether there are any other circumstances which possibly make this baby more high-risk, which is possibly encouraging that baby's pediatrics-certified doctor to suggest temporary supplementation.  They know nothing.  They don't even know enough to know that losing 10% or more is considered bad news by most doctors.  They just throw up half-cocked advice.  If a new mom listens to that advice, and goes with it, you might never know whether the bad advice is what caused the baby to be malnourished for the first month of his life until the next appointment, when the problem is fixed (hopefully nothing serious will happen to that baby in the interim where fat stores would be necessary!) 

    Yes, the entire bump has a disclaimer, but I have never read more doctor hate and blatant "we know more than your doctor"  posts than on the BF board.  And I get that some doctors make bad suggestions--but the irrational fear/hate of doctors on this board is, in my opinion, over the top.  And I will call people out on that irrationality when I see it.  Not because I am a jerk--but because i care about those new, exhausted moms who are vulnerable and so open to suggestions that they might actually take dangerous advice on here and apply it just because they "want to do the right thing."   

  • I agree with Sooner.  We need to be very careful handing out advice in medical situations.  And posters should be careful not to disregard the medical advice of their doctors based on what is being said by people who really have no direct knowledge of their baby.   This is a great board for breastfeeding support, but there is no need to take it to the level where we are telling people to disregard the medical advice of a trained professional medical doctor, particularly where the baby is experiencing a real health issue.  If an LC did that and there was a bad outcome, you can bet there would be a serious lawsuit. 

    That being said, I am very grateful for this board and the great advice that is given on the general topic of breastfeeding.  I have really gained practical advice from this board.  I took a breastfeeding class and had several meetings with LCs at the hospital and I felt that they were not really honest with me about how hard (and initially painful) breastfeeding can be at first for some.  Learning this through this board really kept me going when I was on the verge of quiting during that first month.

  • image sooner1981:
    Amythe problem is that very inexperienced, new mothers come to the BF board and they saynbsp; "my baby has lost 13 of his birth weight and I really wanted to EBF, but my doctor has said I should supplement.nbsp; What should I do."
    Lots of posters on here immediately jump to "Don't listen to your doctor.nbsp; He is evil and is bought and paid for by the formula companies.nbsp; Instead, just try to nurse more, and it will be okay.nbsp; It is normal for babies to lose weight after birth.nbsp; Your body was made to feed your baby.nbsp; No worries!"nbsp;
    The problem is that those posters who just throw up those kinds of "rah, rah" posts are actually dangerous.nbsp; They haven't examined the baby in person.nbsp; They don't know whether the baby has any comorbidities or whether there are any other circumstances which possibly make this baby more highrisk, which is possibly encouraging that baby's pediatricscertified doctor to suggest temporary supplementation.nbsp; They know nothing.nbsp; They don't even know enough to know that losing 10 or more is considered bad news by most doctors.nbsp; They just throw up halfcocked advice.nbsp; If a new mom listens to that advice, and goes with it, you might never know whether the bad advice is what caused the baby to be malnourished for the first month of his life until the next appointment, when the problem is fixed hopefully nothing serious will happen to that baby in the interim where fat stores would be necessary!nbsp;
    Yes, the entire bump has a disclaimer, but I have never read more doctor hate and blatant "we know more than your doctor"nbsp; posts than on the BF board.nbsp; And I get that some doctors make bad suggestionsbut the irrational fear/hate of doctors on this board is, in my opinion, over the top.nbsp; And I will call people out on that irrationality when I see it.nbsp; Not because I am a jerkbut because i care about those new, exhaustednbsp;moms who are vulnerable and so open to suggestions that they might actually takenbsp;dangerous advice onnbsp;here and apply it just because they "want to do the right thing."nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;

    More eloquently stated than I could manage. THANK YOU!
  • sooner, why don't you work on becoming an IBCLC? 

    AmyG offers awesome advice and this post is excellent. She steps in and suggests supplementing when necessary.

    When I read your posts all I see is, "Formula is not poison!" Of course it isn't, but it isn't always the best option either when a mom wants to EBF. Sometimes there are other ways to supplement--pumped milk, donor milk, finger feeding, syringe feeding. Lost weight isn't always a supply issue, but that seems to always be the assumption and that can hurt babies.  And what is often missed when supplementing is suggested are the ways to keep up/increase supply and maintain the nursing relationship in the interim. Add that to your posts and you may become more well rounded.

    Amy's posts actually offer advice based on the situation as she knows it. No, it isn't perfect as the information provided by the poster is not necessarily complete, but she has no agenda other than to help.  

    And yes, this is the breastfeeding board. The posts are going to be pro breastfeeding because the women with the questions want to breastfeed. Women posting here are just moms offering the mom experience-just like when I am talking to my friend at Mommy group. You take the advice and opinions from various sources and make a decision. That's just the way it is. 

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  • Yes, it's the BF board, not the EBF board. BF happens in all different ways and combinations. At the end of the day, we're all feeding our children.
  • image sooner1981:

    Eh...I have EBF my daughter for almost 8 months now, so clearly I am committed to BF because I know it is better than formula.

    That said--when I see bad advice being given on this board, I will try to set the record straight (to the extent I have read/learned facts that differ from the ones posted). 

    BM is wonderful.  But its benefits don't need to be artificially inflated to the point of absurdity--like I see on here almost every other day.  (By the same token, its benefits shouldn't be diminished).

    But, I do disagree with people who say that an infant shouldn't receive supplementation when they fall below 10% of their birth weight, or when they have scary high jaundice levels.  I don't know--maybe since my husband is a NICU doc, I have heard about/grieved for babies who didn't get to experience life on this earth nearly long enough.  My husband is very, very pro-BF, but he also believes that overall nutrition is of the utmost importance--and that low birth weight infants are medically fragile.  At that point, it isn't about the parents' "choice" of BF v. FF. It is a medical issue and the baby has a right to be fed sufficiently so that he or she can maintain their health.  Those situations are the ones that I comment on--to give a parent the knowledge that yes, they can supplement for a few days or a few weeks, and that won't preclude their BF relationship, as long as they take appropriate steps to maintain their supply.

    I am not going to stop posting, just because some people want to present an image of BF as all puppies and rainbows, and if it doesn't work for you--you must be doing something wrong.  That just isn't my thing.  BF is hard.  It absolutely sucked for the first 3 weeks and hurt every freaking time she nursed to the point of tears (despite having a certified "perfect" latch!)  But then it did get easier for me.  Until I started back to work, and my supply dropped like crazy.  If I didn't work in a law firm where I can lock the door to my office and pump for approx. 80 minutes a day, I wouldn't be able to continue EBF-ing, even though I do "everything right."  I empathize with moms who have to supplement with formula--and the research I have performed and analyzed says that supplementing up to 10% with formula causes NO differences in overall health between EBF and supplemented babies.  So, I will continue to make sure that other people know this peer-reviewed and important info.  It isn't an all or nothing deal.  It is a means of nutrition.  It isn't a religion.  That is my story and I am sticking to it :)

    Very well said...completely agree with all of this.


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  • image pepomntpat:

    sooner, why don't you work on becoming an IBCLC? 

    Dare I say same to AmyG?

  • image sosoph:
    Yes, it's the BF board, not the EBF board. BF happens in all different ways and combinations. At the end of the day, we're all feeding our children.

    Thank you.  I think everyone on this board knows the benefits of breastmilk.  I think it's important to remember that while not all women can EBF either because of true supply issues or lack of support, we're all here because we want to offer  our LO the very best nutrition.  

    image
  • image sosoph:
    Yes, it's the BF board, not the EBF board. BF happens in all different ways and combinations. At the end of the day, we're all feeding our children.

     I like this.  There are a lot of demands on mom to be everything to everyone. Some women try hard, but can't handle it all physically and emotionally. Love the boobie milk, but babies also have other needs, which require a sane mommy. A board usually also implies some mommy support, right? Some people don't get much other support.

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  • I am the person who posted asking what is wrong with formula that I am assuming is the reason for this post.  I BF my baby and I BFed my ODS.  I used this board a ton to get as much support as I could.  I have PCOS, so I have naturally low supply.  I KILLED myself with my ODS pumping all the time constantly hooked up to the pump, taking every herb I could possibly imagine, waking up in the middle of the night to pump, etc. just so I could wear the badge of EBF!

    To be honest, it ruined the first few months of my son's life.  I absolutely resented when he wanted to eat because I knew that meant that I had to pump right afterwards to try to stimulate my supply.  When he started STTN it didn't matter because I still had to get up to pump.  I got to play with him very little time with him when he was awake because I was always pumping after I fed him. 

    There is a point at which I imagine trying to EBF is actually harmful.  Are the benefits of exclusively breastfeeding really better than bonding with your baby.  I finally gave up with my DS at 9+ months becuase I just couldnt' keep up and was exhausted.  My DH was furioius with me for setting my alarm every night in the middle of the night to pump, and I was tired of fighting with him.  If I had felt like supplementing with a bit of formula was an option, I probably would have continued BF and pumping what I could, but I never felt like that was an option.  If I couldnt EBF then I had failed and may as well exclusively FF. 

    Why can't this board offer more support for women who want to BF as much as they can, but who have other demands on them that require that maybe just maybe they may have to supplement.  Why does it make you a sub-par mother who doesn't try hard enough if your baby has ever had formula?  In my opinion, this mentality just perpetuates the mommy wars. 

    I agree with the PP, this is the BF board, not the EBF board. 

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  • Another Yes for this post.

    I mostly lurk, but it drives me nuts when I see a poster use the fact that their Husband is a blah blah blah as credentials. I have a degree in Animal Science with an emphasis in dairy production. How's that for some credentials when it comes to lactation???? The basic principals are the same no matter the specie.

    All mammal babies grow better and are healthier on the real deal. I dont think we should be apopolgetic fot that fact.

    I work really hard to make sure DS has enough BM when I'm away from him; which is way more than I would like. I am very proud of the fact that I will not let my desire to eat crappy food and be lazy (because I personally have an issue with laziness) and not pump as often as I should defeat my desire to EBF my baby.

    If its someone else's educated choice to supplement or FF they should do it unapologetically as well. I feel like alot of the formula supportes feel bad about their choice and get over defensive.

    edited for clarity.

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  • image pepomntpat:


    AmyG offers awesome advice and this post is excellent. She steps in and suggests supplementing when necessary.

    When I read your posts all I see is, "Formula is not poison!" Of course it isn't, but it isn't always the best option either when a mom wants to EBF. Sometimes there are other ways to supplement--pumped milk, donor milk, finger feeding, syringe feeding. Lost weight isn't always a supply issue, but that seems to always be the assumption and that can hurt babies.  And what is often missed when supplementing is suggested are the ways to keep up/increase supply and maintain the nursing relationship in the interim. Add that to your posts and you may become more well rounded.

    Amy's posts actually offer advice based on the situation as she knows it. No, it isn't perfect as the information provided by the poster is not necessarily complete, but she has no agenda other than to help.  

    And yes, this is the breastfeeding board. The posts are going to be pro breastfeeding because the women with the questions want to breastfeed. Women posting here are just moms offering the mom experience-just like when I am talking to my friend at Mommy group. You take the advice and opinions from various sources and make a decision. That's just the way it is. 

    The bold part! This is a BF board so mothers here are going to try to help new mothers by giving advice on their experiences BFing.   I have been lurking and posting on this board for the last 3 months.  I have never read a post that trashed formula or told a mother to not give formula under any circumstance. I have also never read a post where a mom was flamed because she was giving up breastfeeding!  Yes, when a mom posts that she is quitting, people will reply with suggestions that she should meet with a LC or try herbs or nurse more often before giving up but they do not flame her.  I think every one needs to realize that the only important thing is that the baby is happy growing and healthy, it does not matter if that is from formula or BM or a combination!!

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  • On the breastfeeding board I make the assumption that moms want support to make breastfeeding work. If they want to know how to supplement, combination feed, or partially wean and they ask that, they get answers on that. If they post and their baby is clearly having medical problems or they would really benefit from in person help, I'm the first to suggest going to a LC or support group.

    But there are some really bad doctors out there giving advice in a field that is not their specialty, or apparently even their interest.  I'm not going to tip-toe around calling them bad doctors just because some doctors are good. My doctor? A lovely woman that does not hesitate to refer to the Breastfeeding Center in town, which is full of free LC support. I don't hate doctors. I hate bad advice handed down from a position of authority. I also will suggest some things, like sunlight for mild jaundice, that seem to escape the recommendations of some doctors and could help avoid formula and preserve a breastfeeding relationship.

    We do moms a disservice when we assume they're too weak to deal with more than one source of information (their almighty doctor) and when we assume that my success rubs salt in their failure.  We need to help every woman find her own success, and she can decide what that is for herself.

  • image tokenhoser:

    We do moms a disservice when we assume they're too weak to deal with more than one source of information (their almighty doctor) and when we assume that my success rubs salt in their failure.  We need to help every woman find her own success, and she can decide what that is for herself.

    This is what I was trying to say, but is much better put.

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  • image couliegirl:
    image tokenhoser:

    We do moms a disservice when we assume they're too weak to deal with more than one source of information (their almighty doctor) and when we assume that my success rubs salt in their failure.  We need to help every woman find her own success, and she can decide what that is for herself.

    This is what I was trying to say, but is much better put.

    Tokenhoser--I think you usually give great advice.  My posts were not directed to you.  And really, I think for the most part that AmyG gives good advice too.  My posts were really directed to the other women on this board (and there are a bunch of them) who deem themselves to be BF experts because they have done it without issues for 3 or 4 months, and they blatantly tell new moms to disregard their doctor's advice and just "go with their mommy instinct."  That kind of advice is dangerous.

    I have advised several women on this board to get second opinions, talk to a LC, etc.  I think a second opinion NEVER hurts.  But I just am not comfortable with telling someone to completely disregard the advice of their medical professional who has examined their child and possibly knows a bit more about the situation than we do (like I said before, was the child a preemie, do they have a minor respiratory complication, do they have a million other risk factors that would cause a doctor to be a little more aggresive in maintaining that specific baby's weight?)  Because we can't possibly know these things, I just think it is a disservice to say "don't listen to your doctor--they are all in bed with the formula companies!1!"   Instead, we should recommend seeking second opinions from another pediatrician or someone with medical training that they can trust. 

    Like I said, I think you give good advice.  Maybe a little more "laissez faire" than I personally am comfortable with--but definitely within the realm of reason and good judgment!  But if you read the posts on this board fairly--you will see that there are a lot of posters, even for preemies or babies who have clearly dropped much more than 10% of their birth weight, who say "don't give in to supplementation...you can do it.  Just pump more.  Just do more skin to skin.  Don't listen to your doctor."  At that point, it is not just a matter of "moms get lots of advice and can sift through it to find what has value," it is a medical issue.  And I will tell those moms not to listen to the crazy talk, and if they don't trust their doctor's advice re: supplementation, to find a new doctor--but not just to "wait and see" when their baby's health is on the line.

  • This has gotten a bit ridiculous.  It's the BF board, the same 15 questions are asked every day, we answer them without being annoyed.  I don't know how many times I have answered a post with, "Well, if you're really worried, you need to call your doctor but here's my experience with X, Y, and Z."

    I don't know anything about formula, so I can't offer any tips on that.  I never gave any to DD. But I did have a kid who had latching issues, the 6 week growth spurt was an absolute b!tch, I had an oversupply, DD spit up a lot, I had excess lipase which meant I spent part of every weekday evening scalding my milk, I was hit with the stomach flu, I stopped pumping a little early and now I'm still nursing past the 1 year mark.  I feel like I have advice to offer when it's appropriate.  If I don't know how to answer, I either drop a line of encouragement or back out of the post.

    image
  • image couliegirl:

    Another Yes for this post.

    I mostly lurk, but it drives me nuts when I see a poster use the fact that their Husband is a blah blah blah as credentials. I have a degree in Animal Science with an emphasis in dairy production. How's that for some credentials when it comes to lactation???? The basic principals are the same no matter the specie.

    All mammal babies grow better and are healthier on the real deal. I dont think we should be apopolgetic fot that fact.

    I work really hard to make sure DS has enough BM when I'm away from him; which is way more than I would like. I am very proud of the fact that I will not let my desire to eat crappy food and be lazy (because I personally have an issue with laziness) and not pump as often as I should defeat my desire to EBF my baby.

    If its someone else's educated choice to supplement or FF they should do it unapologetically as well. I feel like alot of the formula supportes feel bad about their choice and get over defensive.

    edited for clarity.

    I have never "used my husband's credentials" to appear more knowledgeable.  Occassionally, I do pass along something I have learned from him because he is constantly sending me studies to read during the day or bringing home an interesting journal article re: breastfeeding, nutrition, child raising, discipline, sleep training, etc. We have dated/married throughout his medical school and residency.  When we "talk about our day" over dinner, it involves him telling all kinds of things he has learned or thinks are interesting about babies.  So, while I am not a doctor, I am not going to "hide" the information I have learned from him or from all the medical journal articles I have read just because I got them from my husband. 

    Also, your assertion that people who don't EBF are lazy and eat crappy food (WTH?) is frankly offensive.  I have had a pretty easy time of it, as it sounds like you have, if your biggest obstacles to EBF have been wanting to eat crappy food and feeling like you can't.  Why don't you talk to women who have real issues before spouting off with that offensive smack?

  • image tokenhoser:

    On the breastfeeding board I make the assumption that moms want support to make breastfeeding work. If they want to know how to supplement, combination feed, or partially wean and they ask that, they get answers on that. If they post and their baby is clearly having medical problems or they would really benefit from in person help, I'm the first to suggest going to a LC or support group.

    But there are some really bad doctors out there giving advice in a field that is not their specialty, or apparently even their interest.  I'm not going to tip-toe around calling them bad doctors just because some doctors are good. My doctor? A lovely woman that does not hesitate to refer to the Breastfeeding Center in town, which is full of free LC support. I don't hate doctors. I hate bad advice handed down from a position of authority. I also will suggest some things, like sunlight for mild jaundice, that seem to escape the recommendations of some doctors and could help avoid formula and preserve a breastfeeding relationship.

    We do moms a disservice when we assume they're too weak to deal with more than one source of information (their almighty doctor) and when we assume that my success rubs salt in their failure.  We need to help every woman find her own success, and she can decide what that is for herself.

    This is so true about doctors and so sad.  Even the most supportive and breastfeeding friendly doctors just aren't knowledgeable enough about breastfeeding.  I also think it's ridiculous that pedis don't even think to check for tongue tie when a mom is having trouble with breastfeeding.  It's such an easy thing to look for and such an easy thing to fix.  I remember when I met with the second LC who diagnosed DD's tongue tie and I had asked the pediatrician to refer me to an ENT to get it clipped and the pedi said to me, "Well, your DD is doing great now and gaining weight well so I wouldn't worry about it."  Of course she was gaining weight because I had already started supplementing with formula but if there was any hope for me to go back to EBF or even cut back significantly on the amount of formula I was giving, I had to get the tongue tie taken care of.  I couldn't believe that my pedi didn't care to help me.  I feel like most pedis couldn't care less if you breastfeed your baby or not and most of them don't care if you want to breastfeed but are struggling and quit. 

    image
  • image tokenhoser:

    On the breastfeeding board I make the assumption that moms want support to make breastfeeding work. If they want to know how to supplement, combination feed, or partially wean and they ask that, they get answers on that. If they post and their baby is clearly having medical problems or they would really benefit from in person help, I'm the first to suggest going to a LC or support group.

    But there are some really bad doctors out there giving advice in a field that is not their specialty, or apparently even their interest.  I'm not going to tip-toe around calling them bad doctors just because some doctors are good. My doctor? A lovely woman that does not hesitate to refer to the Breastfeeding Center in town, which is full of free LC support. I don't hate doctors. I hate bad advice handed down from a position of authority. I also will suggest some things, like sunlight for mild jaundice, that seem to escape the recommendations of some doctors and could help avoid formula and preserve a breastfeeding relationship.

    We do moms a disservice when we assume they're too weak to deal with more than one source of information (their almighty doctor) and when we assume that my success rubs salt in their failure.  We need to help every woman find her own success, and she can decide what that is for herself.

    This is so true about doctors and so sad.  Even the most supportive and breastfeeding friendly doctors just aren't knowledgeable enough about breastfeeding.  I also think it's ridiculous that pedis don't even think to check for tongue tie when a mom is having trouble with breastfeeding.  It's such an easy thing to look for and such an easy thing to fix.  I remember when I met with the second LC who diagnosed DD's tongue tie and I had asked the pediatrician to refer me to an ENT to get it clipped and the pedi said to me, "Well, your DD is doing great now and gaining weight well so I wouldn't worry about it."  Of course she was gaining weight because I had already started supplementing with formula but if there was any hope for me to go back to EBF or even cut back significantly on the amount of formula I was giving, I had to get the tongue tie taken care of.  I couldn't believe that my pedi didn't care to help me.  I feel like most pedis couldn't care less if you breastfeed your baby or not and most of them don't care if you want to breastfeed but are struggling and quit.  There just isn't enough support out there and it is sad.

    image
  • image tokenhoser:

    On the breastfeeding board I make the assumption that moms want support to make breastfeeding work. If they want to know how to supplement, combination feed, or partially wean and they ask that, they get answers on that. If they post and their baby is clearly having medical problems or they would really benefit from in person help, I'm the first to suggest going to a LC or support group.

    But there are some really bad doctors out there giving advice in a field that is not their specialty, or apparently even their interest.  I'm not going to tip-toe around calling them bad doctors just because some doctors are good. My doctor? A lovely woman that does not hesitate to refer to the Breastfeeding Center in town, which is full of free LC support. I don't hate doctors. I hate bad advice handed down from a position of authority. I also will suggest some things, like sunlight for mild jaundice, that seem to escape the recommendations of some doctors and could help avoid formula and preserve a breastfeeding relationship.

    We do moms a disservice when we assume they're too weak to deal with more than one source of information (their almighty doctor) and when we assume that my success rubs salt in their failure.  We need to help every woman find her own success, and she can decide what that is for herself.

    Yes 

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