November 2011 Moms

S/O Abortion post: using science to TTC thoughts

I personally used IUI and IVF to get pregnant (only IVF worked).  But I know there are opinions and feelings (and I respect them) that when it involves using science then "it wasn't meant to be".

Personally, I thought it was interesting when my IVF Doctor told me about a certain company in my area that doesn't cover using fertility treatments at all because they are a very religious company that feels like if God didn't make it work on its own, then it's best left alone and wasn't meant to be.

NOT trying to start a beef on the board, but I think the topic of pro or against aboration comes up more than this topic on using fertility treatments, so I just wanted to see other people's opinions and thoughts on the matter in a respectful way.

Daisypath Happy Birthday tickers
«1

Re: S/O Abortion post: using science to TTC thoughts

  • Are you asking for thought & opinions on using IVF to get pregnant or selective reduction if IVF results in multiples? Sorry, I'm just a little confused..
    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker Daisypath Anniversary tickers
  • That's interesting. I would have to say that my opinion has changed on this subject. Our first was concieved while I was on BCP (we since found out that my body gets used to the drug every 2 years - yay). We finally decided that we wanted another child last year and waited until January to go off BCP (and other back-ups). My first cycle...no BFP. I was on the TTGP board and started to get worried that we might not be able to get pregnant this year. So naturally my mind wondered what our next step would be. In the past, I've always said that if God didn't want it to happen, then you should listen. But now a days, there's so much science out there that you can easily get your way. I guess I'm still on the fence a bit.
    Daisypath Anniversary tickers

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker


    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker


    image
  • I believe that every woman deserves the right to have a child but due to certain health issues many may not. I am pro science and believe that if it allows a woman to have a child then go for it. I think that science has highly improved our lives today and if we can use it why not, just dont abuse it. 

    I think that using science like that is great but in limitation and regulation as well. For example octo-mom. I think that that doctor was wrong in doing what he did to her especially since many claim she is not mentally stable to do what she does (I dont know the facts of the story so feel free to correct me if I am wrong). 

    In my eyes this procedure isnt any more wrong or right than curing cancer with medicine, doing kidney transplants, helping AIDS victims etc. If the modern medicine allowed it, go for it.  

    image

    BFP 03/01/2011 - DD  Annabelle 10/28/2011
    BFP 12/2/2012 - MC 12/19/2012 @ 5w
    BFP 01/25/2013 - MC 02/09/2013
    BFP 09/09/2013 - DUE 05/17/2014
  • I heard this from someone a couple weeks ago and have to say, I agree emphatically.  God gave us the tools to figure out IUI and IVF.  So he must have meant it to be.

    Plenty more thoughts, but I don't want to hijack the thread...

    BabyFruit Ticker Image and video hosting by TinyPic
  • poruporu
    5000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    member

    Can't say I am very religions - but if I did believe in a one true god, I would argue that god gave mankind the skills to find away around the body's limitations, so isn't it still endorsed by god in its own way?  But that may fall victim to the whole adam and eve eating the apple off the tree argument, where people say we shouldnt do it because it wasn't meant to be.

    I think fertility treatment/research is awesome!  I hope it becomes more accessible for future women who desperately want to conceive.  I think the saddest part of abortion is that there are so many people who don't want children that "seem" to get knocked up so easily but then abort, when there are so many ready, willing, able mothers in the world who only wish they could conceive.  Life isn't always fair, so take it by the reins and make it work for you -- at least that's how I feel.  My dream one day is that adoption disappears (because there are no unwanted babies in the world) and technology advances allows anyone to conceive and carry a child that wants to.

    http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/thebump.vanillaforums.com/FileUpload/67/b38fc08d185fcd40b8eb85f82b36df.jpg
    DD April 2014  |  DS October 2011
  • I don't think anyone can or should judge using science unless they have personally been in a position where it was the only possible way to get pregnant.  It makes me so mad to hear people (who are pregnant or have kids) say "I would never do that".  Well, luckily for you, you didn't have to, but you don't know how you would feel if you tried without success to get pregnant for years.

    I have not been through any type of fertility treatment and I don't know what I would do, but I certainly won't judge someone who had to make those tough decisions. 


    DD february 2010 | DS october 2011


    *please excuse my typos, bumping from my iphone*
  • I am a Christian, and I don't understand why anyone would feel that way. My MIL was constantly telling me "It'll happen when it's meant to be...God has a plan" I believe God does have a plan, but I don't see anything wrong with using fertility  meds, IUI, IVF or anything else for that matter. It would really piss me off when she would say it, because wouldn't you know, she got pregnant very easily. I did too eventually, it just took a few months of realizing I wans't ovulating and 1 round of Clomid, I consider myself very lucky to have only had to go that far. If that were the case, than maybe those people should think all medicine/surgery is wrong. If you've got a blocked artery maybe its God's plan for you to croak now? Just rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it's God's plan for some of us to have a longer, bumpier road to a baby than others. I don't know. 
  • I wouldn't tell someone diagnosed with cancer their life just wasn't meant to be.  So why would I tell someone with PCOS that it wasn't meant to be?

    I do not see a difference between cancer treatment and IF treatment.  In both instances technology is changing what "God's plan" would have been in its absence. 

    Lilypie Pregnancy tickers Lilypie Second Birthday tickers
  • image jseaton61:
    Are you asking for thought & opinions on using IVF to get pregnant or selective reduction if IVF results in multiples? Sorry, I'm just a little confused..

    Sorry for the confusion.  Really just thoughts on the process or manipulation of the process as well.  My curiousity really just stemmed from what my doctor had told me about that company.  Since I personally never gave a 2nd thought to using science to TTC (even before it was the option I ended up using), I thought it was interesting to hear a completely "against" opinion and just really never thought of it.  And then I just was curious what others though.  But, I'm not flaming anyone for their opinions and thoughts (and hope others won't on here as well); just trying to see other opinions and other sides of the fence (so to speak).

    Daisypath Happy Birthday tickers
  • I personally have no issue with IVF and other fertility treatments. I do not believe that whether or not you can conceive a child has anything to do with God. To that same effect, I don't believe in trusting in God to give you a child when the time is right. When my friend got pregnant unintentionally, she said I guess God decided now is the time to give us a child even though we aren't ready. I'm sorry. It doesn't work like that. You and your husband were having unprotected sex on a regular basis. Its like playing Russian roulette with sperm.. it was bound to happen.

    There are plenty of wonderful people who would be excellent parents and they can't have children without the help of science. Yet, there are the women who all they has to do is look at a man and they get pregnant. (Not really possible, but you get my point.)

    If my husband and I were unable to conceive on our own, I absolutely would have sought out fertility treatments.

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker Daisypath Anniversary tickers
  • I am very pro-science! Since I don't actually believe in God, I can't really discuss God's will. It's not a concept I can logically understand.

     I hope that every person on this planet who would like to carry a baby has that opportunity, whether it's "God's will" or science, or any combination thereof.

     

     

  • There was a thread on another board (TIP, maybe?) from a woman whose ILs were very much against IVF and other fertility treatments. According to her ILs, children conceived through such methods were not "conceived through love."

    My opinion is that if you're willing to subject your body to fertility treatments (have not been through them myself, but what I've heard about and read is that they are ROUGH on your body, mentally and physically), then that child is most definitely conceived through love!

    I'm not religious at all, but I like the idea that God gave humans the skill to find ways around the body's limitations.

  • evanssjevanssj member

    image RedCamaro:
    That's interesting. I would have to say that my opinion has changed on this subject. Our first was concieved while I was on BCP (we since found out that my body gets used to the drug every 2 years - yay). We finally decided that we wanted another child last year and waited until January to go off BCP (and other back-ups). My first cycle...no BFP. I was on the TTGP board and started to get worried that we might not be able to get pregnant this year. So naturally my mind wondered what our next step would be. In the past, I've always said that if God didn't want it to happen, then you should listen. But now a days, there's so much science out there that you can easily get your way. I guess I'm still on the fence a bit.

    This could just be a typo but are you saying that you were worried that you wouldn't get pregnant after one cycle?

  • I am of the thought process: if it wasn't in God's plan to use those proceedures, then why did he allow man to create them?

    With that aside, I have no issues with the science and we would have explored it had we needed help to conceive.  I think that anyone willing to go through that process more than deserves a chance at being a parent.  I know a few couples turning to "science" to help them and I wish them nothing but the best of luck and lots of T's and P's.

    <a href="www.juliabrockphotography.blogspot.com" target=
  • God does have a plan and for us IVF was part of that plan.  IVF was a tough road, but it has made our marriage stronger and brought us a beautiful baby boy.  How can anyone say that it wasn't meant to be or that he wasn't conceived with love?
    image

    ~Working Mom~Breastfeeding Mom~Cloth Diapering Mom~BLW Mom~

    Blog - No Longer on the DL ~ The Man Cave
    Shawn and Larissa
    LO #1 - Took 2 years and 2 IVFs ~ DX - severe MFI mild PCOS homozygous MTHFR (a1298c)
    LO #2 - TTC 7 months, surprise spontaneous BFP!
    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • evanssjevanssj member

     

    I didn't realize that people felt so strongly about using ART to conceive until one morning listening to a radio show on my drive to work... 

    The caller was asking people if it was wrong of her to not go to her BFF's baby shower b/c the child was conceived via IVF.  In her eyes this child was not created by God and she wasn't recognizing that it was a legitimate pregnancy.

    Thank goodness everyone who called in to respond was appalled by her opinion but it showed me that there are ppl out there who feel this way.

    This was before DH and I started to TTC.  We eventually TTC for a year (almost having to do our first IUI in April) before this little blessing happened.  This person haunted me throughout the whole TTC process and was the only reason I even thought to question if it was morally wrong.

    I am very pro science! Every woman should be able to have a baby. 

     

  • image ldswims:

    I heard this from someone a couple weeks ago and have to say, I agree emphatically.  God gave us the tools to figure out IUI and IVF.  So he must have meant it to be.

    Yes  my thoughts exactly!

    Pregnancy Ticker
  • Obviously I'm in the "YAY Science!" camp since IUI is what finally worked for us.  I'm also of the mindset that if God wasn't ok with it, he wouldn't have given us the technology.  And I think everyone going through IF knows in the back of their mind that you could go through it all and it STILL not work.  It's not a guarantee.

    Diagnosed PCOS 2/07, TTC #1 since 8/09
    11/10 - Clomid Round 1 = BFN
    12/10 - Clomid Round 2 = BFN
    1/11 - Voluntary Break = BFN (duh)
    2/11 - Clomid Round 3 = BFN
    3/11 - Femara + IUI = BFP * Beta#1=56 * Beta#2=266
    *Cautiously expecting baby girls on November 28, 2011*
    imageimage
    Pregnancy Ticker
  • I have no objection to the use of fertility treatments.  Frankly, I don't think it's any of my business how another couple conceived.  Or anyone else's business, for that matter.

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • image evanssj:

    The caller was asking people if it was wrong of her to not go to her BFF's baby shower b/c the child was conceived via IVF.  In her eyes this child was not created by God and she wasn't recognizing that it was a legitimate pregnancy.

    This kind of disgusted me.  I'm glad to know people called in and disagreed with her.  I would ask her if when someone is raped and gets pregnant if that was created by God.  The sperm and egg meet, just because they don't meet inside the woman's body doesn't mean they didn't meet just like they're supposed to.

    I also wonder how she could consider this person a friend if she couldn't find the compassion to see what that person went through to get pregnant.  Does she not realize the months of tears, sweat and blood that IF people go through to get to that position?

     TTC #1 since June 2008
    M/C @ 6 weeks 12/31/2008, Ectopic @ 6 weeks on 4/23/2010
    Diagnosed Unexplained 11/2009-DH is fine-I don't get AF
    Cycle #22 - 1/27/11 - IUI #1 & Injections - BFP! - DS born 11/11/11 
    TTC#2 - 2/24/14 - IUI & Injections - BFP! - EDD 11/29/14
    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
    BabyFruit Ticker
  • I don't believe in god, so I don't believe there is some grand plan as to why certain couples struggle to get pregnant.  There are obviously issues that are causing any given couple's infertility and if we can overcome those with science/technology, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't.

    At the same time, while reproducing is essential and most people want to have a biological child (so it's an important cause), there are so many life threatening diseases out there that need to be cured.  I'm not sure if our research dollars are best spent on reproductive technologies.

    All that said, I think if DH and I had struggled with secondary infertility, I might have just taken it as a sign from nature that I couldn't handle another child.  I was sort of wavering on the decision, so it would have been a sort of cop out for me.  Primary infertility...I think we would have gone through with whatever treatments were necessary (that we could afford).

    ETA: my second paragraph above could probably cause some hurt feelings.  I didn't mean to offend.  IF is a terrible experience for couples to go through, not something to be taken lightly.  I'm not sure how one would weigh which is more important...curing cancer (or any other disease) or "curing" IF.  I guess it comes down to quality of life. 

    image
  • evanssjevanssj member
    image jaminjeff:
    image evanssj:

    The caller was asking people if it was wrong of her to not go to her BFF's baby shower b/c the child was conceived via IVF.  In her eyes this child was not created by God and she wasn't recognizing that it was a legitimate pregnancy.

    This kind of disgusted me.  I'm glad to know people called in and disagreed with her.  I would ask her if when someone is raped and gets pregnant if that was created by God.  The sperm and egg meet, just because they don't meet inside the woman's body doesn't mean they didn't meet just like they're supposed to.

    I also wonder how she could consider this person a friend if she couldn't find the compassion to see what that person went through to get pregnant.  Does she not realize the months of tears, sweat and blood that IF people go through to get to that position?

    It completely disgusted me too...I think one of the callers accused her of not being a real friend and she tried to argue this.  It is possible that the friend who used IVF wasn't aware of her faux friend's views on the subject.

  • image waiting4Baby00:

    I wouldn't tell someone diagnosed with cancer their life just wasn't meant to be.  So why would I tell someone with PCOS that it wasn't meant to be?

    I do not see a difference between cancer treatment and IF treatment.  In both instances technology is changing what "God's plan" would have been in its absence. 

    This is where I stand as well.

    image
  • I am extremely religious, but I don;t fee that either science or God exclude the other.  Just because you believe in God and God's plan with for things shouldn't mean that you can't benefit from the use of technology and science.  My brother and his wife (also extremely religious) have not  been able to conceive after 4 years of trying and multiple tries with IUI.  As soon as he gets back from Afganistan next year they will begin trying with IVF.  In my opinion, God created man and gave him intelligence to create technology to better our lives.  So, I am all about fertility treatments, being  used for people who have true need.  I am still against the misuse of fertility treatments, but that has nothing to do with my religious views.
    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker Photobucket BabyFruit Ticker Blinkies, Glitter Graphics & more" BFP #1 12/26/06 DS born 08/08/07 BFP #2 12/16/10 EDD 08/23/11 Missed M/C ~7weeks D&C 02/04/11 BFP #3 3/11/11 4/1/10 heard HB 149!!! EDD is 11/17/11
  • poruporu
    5000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    member
    image evanssj:

    image RedCamaro:
    That's interesting. I would have to say that my opinion has changed on this subject. Our first was concieved while I was on BCP (we since found out that my body gets used to the drug every 2 years - yay). We finally decided that we wanted another child last year and waited until January to go off BCP (and other back-ups). My first cycle...no BFP. I was on the TTGP board and started to get worried that we might not be able to get pregnant this year. So naturally my mind wondered what our next step would be. In the past, I've always said that if God didn't want it to happen, then you should listen. But now a days, there's so much science out there that you can easily get your way. I guess I'm still on the fence a bit.

    This could just be a typo but are you saying that you were worried that you wouldn't get pregnant after one cycle?

    Don't want to speak on RedCamaro's behalf, but I know after I got through my first cycle (which actually resulted in a CP), I had the preliminary thought, if I couldn't conceive what would I do, adopt, fertility treatments etc.  I dont think she meant that she freaked out that she wasnt KU after one cycle, just that the lack of success got her gears going on what she would do down the road.

    http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/thebump.vanillaforums.com/FileUpload/67/b38fc08d185fcd40b8eb85f82b36df.jpg
    DD April 2014  |  DS October 2011
  • I am pro-science on all aspects of the world, this one included...however I get why the original poster was wondering. 

    My 80 yr old grandma is Catholic and in 1966 her church was preaching against birth control, pills or otherwise, because if God wanted you to have children you should.  However, by this point she had 8 children after 9 pregnancies and said "God will understand that she just couldn't handle anymore"...just because people are religious doesn't mean they can't apply common sense and I would like to think the crazy "anti-science" are the exception not the rule.

    image
  • I'm not religious, but I will put in my 2 cents. 

    I'm all for using science to provide opportunities to people who would not otherwise have them....i.e. IVF, in-utero sugary for spinal bifida, cancer treatment. However, it gets a little hazy for me when science is used simply to make life easier (i.e. plastic surgery, designer babies [not sure if this one is real yet or if I am referencing a L & O: SVU episode). I also believe it's a double-edged sword. "Scientific advancement" can be blamed for many of the issues that cause women difficulty with conceiving-- pesticides, hormones in food, exposure to toxins, each of these connect to issues of infertility, and I am betting even more than we (and the scientific community) realize. Not that this is the case for every woman....

    It goes beyond pregnancy too, our desires to have access to food year round that are are not in season or local to our environment was an impetus for the use of pesticides and genetically modified foods, as well as increased food costs because of transportation. 

    So, in conclusion, I am thankful that there's opportunity for families to start because of science, the rest is just a ramble which I am sure will get me labeled as "extra crunchy." ;-)

    image
  • jb2rnjb2rn
    5000 Comments Third Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    member

    I believe in God, and I believe in science.

    Did anyone see this article that came out this week? : http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/10/my-take-catholic-church-should-reverse-ivf-opposition/

    I was raised Catholic (although I no longer practice) and it disgusts me that the Catholic church cannot see that ART is necessary and a wonderful gift given to us, by God.

    I am beyond thankful that we conceived on our own, but given my diagnosis and labs, we shouldn't have been. We were researching and hoping a clinic would allow us to do IVF since my FSH was so high.

    I am so sad to think if we did not get pregnant, that somehow, God would not want us to have children? That seems wrong to me.

    b/w=FSH 15.6, AMH 0.4 surprise natural BFP on 3/12/11
    DS born via unplanned C-section at 40w6d

    image

  • image LuvMyFurbaby:

    There was a thread on another board (TIP, maybe?) from a woman whose ILs were very much against IVF and other fertility treatments. According to her ILs, children conceived through such methods were not "conceived through love."

    My opinion is that if you're willing to subject your body to fertility treatments (have not been through them myself, but what I've heard about and read is that they are ROUGH on your body, mentally and physically), then that child is most definitely conceived through love!

    I'm not religious at all, but I like the idea that God gave humans the skill to find ways around the body's limitations.

     

    If I were in church right now, I'd yell "Can I get an 'AMEN!' from all my IF treatment girls!!!"  Thanks for the chuckle.  If anyone has been through it or close to someone who's been through it, "ROUGH" is about the one word that can some it up!

    Daisypath Happy Birthday tickers
  • Thank you to everyone who posted their comments.   I know these are touchy subjects, but I personally just find it all fascinating how many views and opinions on the subject matter are out there!  And I do agree, this company is definitely the exception, not the rule.  And it actually made me upset to hear about it because I love this company's products, but it kind of made want to stop supporting their business (among other things they have publicly been known to take a stance against).  But mostly it just made me so sad for any employee of this company who is struggling TTC, but knows it won't be covered by their company's insurance.  AND to have to go on the down-low with IF treatments if that is the culture at the company?  So sad.  It just stuck with me.  And then I just got curious how others felt about the topic.
    Daisypath Happy Birthday tickers
«1
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards