Attachment Parenting

More Anti-Semitism From ILs, Or Am I Too Sensitive?

This is kind of a f/u to a post I made @ Thanksgiving here:

http://community.thenest.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/45835285.aspx

Anyway, DH hadn't talked to sister about this until yesterday. He's been slammed with the last few weeks of the school semester. She called to wish him happy bday yesterday evening & he decided to bring it up - also, 1st time he's talked to her since the incident. 

He basically told her "I can't change who your friends with, but this hurt me b/c ..." She said that her goal is to save ex's soul (SIL has become really, really fundamentalist over the last year), & that ex comes to church with her a lot, & DH doesn't, therefore she's closer with ex. DH is an atheist & "came out" to his family about it last year. She goes on & on about how the reason we feel upset is b/c we're not right with God. Oh, & the fact that ex has assaulted DH in front of SD & is emotionally abusing SD is okay, b/c she's trying to get right with God.  Ummm, whatever. 

After 45 mins of this craziness & lots of over the top preaching, DH hangs up. Within a few seconds, SIL calls him back & starts grilling him on why we celebrate Hanukkah even though I'm an atheist. DH corrects her & says I'm more agnostic than anything, but that my Jewish heritage is very important to me & we try to maintain the cultural aspects. She starts going on about how that seems rather hypocritical, she'll pray for me, blah blah. DH was just like Indifferent & had to leave, so he hung up. I'm pretty hurt that she could even question why a Jew would celebrate Hanukkah, agnostic or not. The fact I had family that lived behind a wall during the Holocaust has significance for me outside of the "does God exist" issue. I told him I would call her after Ari went down & explain to her what being a Jew meant to me. If his family doesn't understand how hurtful they are being, they'll keep doing it. And obviously I can explain how important this is to me better than he can.

I called SIL & told her that I wanted to offer a little more explanation about the issue. She states she was satisfied with DHs answer, but she'll pray for me. I calmly told her that I was hurt by the question, but understood why she asked, & offered a quick explanation of what Jewish culture means to me. She says that I only flip flop on whether God exists b/c some days I don't like what life dishes out (!!!!!! uh no, but thanks for ASSuming), that I'm a total hypocrite for even calling myself Jewish, that we need to make sure Ari hears about Jesus so he can be saved from hell b/c that's where he'll go if we raise him Jewish, that only a real Jew should celebrate Hanukkah, & I am a wishy washy flip flopper, not a real Jew. If I was hurt by her question, it's b/c I'm a sinner in God's eyes.

No actually, I was just trying to explain to you the lens through which I see this, so you can understand. But you're not really listening, so I'll let you go & have a nice night. 

So now my fundamentalist SIL who knows nothing of Judaism has concluded that I'm a phony Jew. Thanks for the judgment, I'll be sure to let God (if he exists) know that you've already decided this for him.

Let me clarify, I'm not knocking being deeply religious - SIL's church is bordering on cultish & if you use religion as an excuse to turn your back on your brother, I have an issue with you, not religion per se. Several family members are actually concerned about her church & her religious fervor, & DHs family is pretty religious.

This post is long, sorry. I'm just really hurt, but I know I should probably let this roll off since SIL has become pretty crazy over the last year. If it was just her, it would be different, but its not. 

Thanks for listening.  I guess I just need to be done with all of this, but it's hard to be "done" with ILs. Christmas at MILs will be even more awkward this year. Yay.

 

imageimage


Certified Positive Discipline Educator

"Remember: You're not managing an inconvenience, you're raising a human being." - Kittie Frantz


Ari has 3 food allergies/sensitivities, down from 21 @ 16 months! Mama is Gluten & Dairy free.


image
image
image

Re: More Anti-Semitism From ILs, Or Am I Too Sensitive?

  • Hugs, WebMistress. That whole situation just sucks. You shouldn't have to explain to anybody why you celebrate Hanukkah or any other holiday. No one should. I don't think you're being too sensitive-SIL sounds like a very hurtful person, and honestly, her religion sounds more like a cult than regular Christianity. 
    Lilypie Kids Birthday tickersLilypie Third Birthday tickers
  • image webMistress0609:

    I called SIL & told her that I wanted to offer a little more explanation about the issue. She states she was satisfied with DHs answer, but she'll pray for me. I calmly told her that I was hurt by the question, but understood why she asked, & offered a quick explanation of what Jewish culture means to me. She says that I only flip flop on whether God exists b/c some days I don't like what life dishes out (!!!!!! uh no, but thanks for ASSuming), that I'm a total hypocrite for even calling myself Jewish, that we need to make sure Ari hears about Jesus so he can be saved from hell b/c that's where he'll go if we raise him Jewish, that only a real Jew should celebrate Hanukkah, & I am a wishy washy flip flopper, not a real Jew. If I was hurt by her question, it's b/c I'm a sinner in God's eyes.

    I would have started vibrating with anger at that point. It's one thing for her to be completely wrong about Judaism as a culture and heritage - but it is NEVER ok to say that a child is going to hell - or may in danger of doing so. It's self-righteous hubris judgemental bullshit.

    I am livid on your behalf.

    So no, you're not being overly sensitive. I have no advice, but if the three of us are ever in the same room I'll hold her down while you smack some sense into her.

    Huge, huge hugs.

    image
    My Life Blog My Book Review Blog

    Be wary of people who say they don't have a toilet...because where are they putting their s**t?

    image

    image
  • Indifferent She sounds crazy cakes for sure. I hate when "religious" people say who is going to hell. I'm really sure they make that call Confused
    DD1 - 2010 TTC v2.0
  • Wow she is nuts!  I'm sorry you are having to deal with such close minded people.

    Certified Babywearing Instructor
    imageimage
    Lilypie Second Birthday tickersLilypie Pregnancy tickers
  • I'm a fairly religious person and I could never imagine saying to anyone what she has said to you. What a nutterbutter!! I'm sorry she doesn't show you more respect. I think it's great that you're preserving your heritage and traditions :)
  • i am so. so. so. so sorry you have to deal with that.

    she is completely out of line. she has absolutely no right to question why you celebrate jewish holidays. she has no right to judge you, or your husband, or your child. she has no right to use her religion to be a complete and utter douche.

    i'm really sorry. i know all too well what you're going through-- i have a crazy fundamentalist aunt who is very much the same way (except my whole family is christian-- just not christian enough for her, so we're all going to hell). there is no reasoning with people like this. there is no logic, no compassion, no respect. they see only what they want to see and they feel justified in it.

    i have no advice for you other than to try the best you can not to let her get to you. it completely sucks and it's unfair and i really am sorry.

    missed m/c found at 10w 2 days on 5/26/09 Remembering Peanut

    Lilypie First Birthday tickers

  • image kwinters87:
    Wow she is nuts!  I'm sorry you are having to deal with such close minded people.

    this!! wow 

  • Urgh. Hugs!! And Happy last day of Hannukah. FWIW, while I think your SIL TOTALLY crossed the line and your ILs are BSC, I think in this day and age, it's hard to be Jewish living secularly and NOT have at least 1 person say they are praying for your soul. I am Jewish as well, and fairly observant about it (kosher, don't work on Shabbat, go to synagogue fairly regularly, etc.) and I have people question my commitment to Judaism and/or tell me I'm going to hell.

    The best response I can offer you for future convos with SIL is to let her know that Jews don't believe in hell so you and Ari won't be going there after all. Wink

    No other real "advice" but just want you to know you have virtual support if nothing else.

    imageimage
    image
    AngelSmitty: This reminds me of something my college Human Sexuality professor used to say in class.  "Sex is between the legs.  Gender is between the ears."
  • image someflower6:

    i am so. so. so. so sorry you have to deal with that.

    she is completely out of line. she has absolutely no right to question why you celebrate jewish holidays. she has no right to judge you, or your husband, or your child. she has no right to use her religion to be a complete and utter douche.

    Exactly this. 

    Photobucket Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • I'm sorry you are dealing with this.  Like some PP's I am Christian.  I would never tell anyone they were headed to hell and it's hardly the way to endear people to your particular religion.

    I don't understand why some people can't just live and let live. 

    Big, big hugs.

    Lilypie Second Birthday tickers
  • image shaunna&chad:
    image someflower6:

    i am so. so. so. so sorry you have to deal with that.

    she is completely out of line. she has absolutely no right to question why you celebrate jewish holidays. she has no right to judge you, or your husband, or your child. she has no right to use her religion to be a complete and utter douche.

    Exactly this. 

    Aaaaaagreed!

  • Your SIL isn't deeply religious.  She's deeply crazy.

    I'm sorry you have to deal with that.  I'd be cutting off communication with SIL and limit the time she gets with Ari because if she's saying this stuff now I'm almost positive she'll be talking crap about how "Mommy and Daddy are going to hell" when he's older.  

    I'm a Christian, I believe in God.  I do not try and shove my beliefs down other people's throats, or tell them that their beliefs are wrong.  With all the different belief systems and religions and branches of the same religions, how can someone know that they are the "right" ones?  

  • You're overreacting. Not in the sense that you're wrong (you're not) or that any of your ILs are right (they aren't). You're over reacting in the sense that you're reacting at all--you can't argue with crazy, but you insist on trying. Bless your heart for trying to have a reasonable and rational discussion, but SIL is neither reasonable nor rational, so stop it. Stop giving your SIL the power to make you upset or hurt your feelings. Whether she thinks you're a fake Jew has no bearing on anything.
  • Yeah, she's crazycakes, no doubt./be glad your H isn't close enough to be around her much. "Jewish" is both a faith and a culture with a lot of history and heritage. Anyone with half a brain cell understands that. Unfortunately much of America has lost its "culture" or never had one so people can't relate.

    I wonder if she thinks that roughly half of the 90% of Americans who will celebrate Christmas this year but are not regular churchgoers are hypocrites and if they'd say it to their (our) faces, or if it's just a "Jewish thing".
    TTC since January 2007 -Dx Stage IV endo - 1 removed tube
    AlternaTickers - Cool, free Web tickers
    image
    Just hanging out!
  • image BFab11:

    I'm sorry you have to deal with that.  I'd be cutting off communication with SIL and limit the time she gets with Ari because if she's saying this stuff now I'm almost positive she'll be talking crap about how "Mommy and Daddy are going to hell" when he's older.   

    Yeah, she's not going to be allowed one on one time with Ari, ever. She's already done the preaching & "you're stepmom & dad aren't right with God" stuff with SD. 

    Not that it matters anyway. She doesn't even ask about Ari, doesn't seem to accept him any more than she accepts me, & doesn't even have his name spelled correctly on the pic she has of him on FB. I mean, how could he be worthy of her acceptance since he's the spawn of an evil Jew/agnostic right? Sigh. 

    Actually none of DHs family spends much time with Ari. The whole dynamic is really weird & crappy. If it wasn't for SD, DH would be down with us moving to Pitt to be closer to my family. They're more accepting of him than his own. 

    imageimage


    Certified Positive Discipline Educator

    "Remember: You're not managing an inconvenience, you're raising a human being." - Kittie Frantz


    Ari has 3 food allergies/sensitivities, down from 21 @ 16 months! Mama is Gluten & Dairy free.


    image
    image
    image
  • image glasgow_girl:

    I'm sorry you are dealing with this.  Like some PP's I am Christian.  I would never tell anyone they were headed to hell and it's hardly the way to endear people to your particular religion.

    I don't understand why some people can't just live and let live. 

    Big, big hugs.

    Yeah, it's kind of like who is the actual hypocrite, kwim? I don't profess to be an expert on the teachings of Jesus, but I'm fairly certain that it's not very Christlike to act the way she did. 

    imageimage


    Certified Positive Discipline Educator

    "Remember: You're not managing an inconvenience, you're raising a human being." - Kittie Frantz


    Ari has 3 food allergies/sensitivities, down from 21 @ 16 months! Mama is Gluten & Dairy free.


    image
    image
    image
  • image BFab11:

    Your SIL isn't deeply religious.  She's deeply crazy.

    This.

    image
    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • image fredalina:
    Yeah, she's crazycakes, no doubt./be glad your H isn't close enough to be around her much. "Jewish" is both a faith and a culture with a lot of history and heritage. Anyone with half a brain cell understands that. Unfortunately much of America has lost its "culture" or never had one so people can't relate.

    I wonder if she thinks that roughly half of the 90% of Americans who will celebrate Christmas this year but are not regular churchgoers are hypocrites and if they'd say it to their (our) faces, or if it's just a "Jewish thing".

    I asked her if she would think to ask DH why we also celebrate Christmas (we do it as a cultural holiday) given his atheism. She sputtered for a bit & that's when she started on the whole "I'm not a Jew-y enough Jew" thing.

    imageimage


    Certified Positive Discipline Educator

    "Remember: You're not managing an inconvenience, you're raising a human being." - Kittie Frantz


    Ari has 3 food allergies/sensitivities, down from 21 @ 16 months! Mama is Gluten & Dairy free.


    image
    image
    image
  • image EmmieB:
    image webMistress0609:

    I called SIL & told her that I wanted to offer a little more explanation about the issue. She states she was satisfied with DHs answer, but she'll pray for me. I calmly told her that I was hurt by the question, but understood why she asked, & offered a quick explanation of what Jewish culture means to me. She says that I only flip flop on whether God exists b/c some days I don't like what life dishes out (!!!!!! uh no, but thanks for ASSuming), that I'm a total hypocrite for even calling myself Jewish, that we need to make sure Ari hears about Jesus so he can be saved from hell b/c that's where he'll go if we raise him Jewish, that only a real Jew should celebrate Hanukkah, & I am a wishy washy flip flopper, not a real Jew. If I was hurt by her question, it's b/c I'm a sinner in God's eyes.

    I would have started vibrating with anger at that point. It's one thing for her to be completely wrong about Judaism as a culture and heritage - but it is NEVER ok to say that a child is going to hell - or may in danger of doing so. It's self-righteous hubris judgemental bullshit.

    I am livid on your behalf.

    So no, you're not being overly sensitive. I have no advice, but if the three of us are ever in the same room I'll hold her down while you smack some sense into her.

    Huge, huge hugs.

    What kind of all loving god would send a someone to hell for believing what they were taught? 

    SIL doesn't sound much like a christian to me. 

  • image ljlkm:
    You're overreacting. Not in the sense that you're wrong (you're not) or that any of your ILs are right (they aren't). You're over reacting in the sense that you're reacting at all--you can't argue with crazy, but you insist on trying. Bless your heart for trying to have a reasonable and rational discussion, but SIL is neither reasonable nor rational, so stop it. Stop giving your SIL the power to make you upset or hurt your feelings. Whether she thinks you're a fake Jew has no bearing on anything.

    In the future, I will not attempt to have a rational conversation with her. I didn't realize before yesterday how crazy she'd really become. We used to get along great. 

    Honestly though, I'm not the type of person who can not react at all to pretty much all of my ILs not accepting me or my son. Especially when I've moved away from ALL of my family so that DH can be close to SD & maintain his visitation. I don't expect the ILs to replace my family, but I don't think it's out of the question to be respected & accepted. On top of that, I've given up a lot family wise, career wise, & happiness wise for SD & all we hear about is poor ex-wife, & poor SD for Dad moving on 10 years later. Yeah, SD has at least one stable home & a brother she adores. It's pretty awful.  I actually had a good relationship w/ ILs before Ari arrived - once we got pregnant, they all turned on us, b/c it was "wrong to do that to" SD. That's when they started showing their true colors with the whole Jewish thing too.

    imageimage


    Certified Positive Discipline Educator

    "Remember: You're not managing an inconvenience, you're raising a human being." - Kittie Frantz


    Ari has 3 food allergies/sensitivities, down from 21 @ 16 months! Mama is Gluten & Dairy free.


    image
    image
    image
  • I don't think this is her being anti-semetic. I think she'd have this response to you if you were buddhist or muslim. 

    What she is being is rude, intrusive and plain offensive.

    NO ONE gets to tell you what traditions/holidays to celebrate in your own home. 

     To tell you that your child will burn in hell is beyond infuriating. I would not engage with her any further on any discussion around religion or culture. I would actively shut down any attempts on her part to start up the debate. If she can't resist making comments like, "I'm only saying it to save your soul." "you only feel this way because you're a sinner." then I wouldn't spend time with her.

    image
    Elizabeth 3yrs old Jane 1yr old

  • Hugs!  I don't think you're too sensitive but I do think you and DH need to look long and hard at the details of how/when/if you want his family involved in Ari's life and DH will have to take the lead in setting some ground rules.   Also, what type of relationship does DH want/have with them? 

    In the meantime, I'd work on developing a great group of friends (I know, easier said than done) to serve as your local family and spend holidays with them beyond maybe an obligatory 30 min. stop-in to see DH's family.  Holidays can be such a charged time and it just doesn't seem worth it.   Maybe you guys can get together with his family more on non-holidays where there's a chance there will be less drama and craziness.

    image
    image
    AlternaTickers - Cool, free Web tickers
    AlternaTickers - Cool, free Web tickers
  • WOW - that is seriously crazy. If I were you, I would call and cancel your plans with them for Christmas since you aren't "real" Christians anways, and you shouldn't celebrate the holiday.

    Honestly, she sounds ignorant and I don't know if you'll ever get through to her.

  • first and foremost I am so sorry to hear that you have to deal with this, because it IS anti-semitic, or at least deeply offensive and un-pc and pretty damn innacurate to tell someone that their child is going to hell for being raised jewish. Your a much kinder and more patient person than I-think I might have slapped the livin daylights out of anyone who tries to tell me my child is going to hell simply for the manner I deem fit to raise them! There also comes a time when you must consider cutting people like that out of you and your childs life because if she says things like this to you, what does she say to Ari? and that's no good.

    Furthermore, I think celebrating Hannukah even tho you may consider yourself agnostic is a wonderful thing to do, because at the end of the day the best that can be done is to educate children of their background and heritage, and then let them decide from there what feels best for them. I was raised Catholic and ended up a crazy mix of Tibetan Buddhist and Hindu because the church simply didn't appeal to me. I am eternally grateful to my dad n stepmom for allowing me to express my faith in god under the terms that make the most sense to me. God is a very complex idea, and no one can be talked into or out of their beliefs once they decide they've found a sticking point. But everyone should be respected for their unique beliefs and however they decide to celebrate with an educate their children is up to them!

    best of luck an disown her hateful ass if all else fails! and happy hannukah   :-)

  • image fredalina:
    Yeah, she's crazycakes, no doubt./be glad your H isn't close enough to be around her much. "Jewish" is both a faith and a culture with a lot of history and heritage. Anyone with half a brain cell understands that. Unfortunately much of America has lost its "culture" or never had one so people can't relate.

    I wonder if she thinks that roughly half of the 90% of Americans who will celebrate Christmas this year but are not regular churchgoers are hypocrites and if they'd say it to their (our) faces, or if it's just a "Jewish thing".

    This is what I was thinking too- plenty of non-Christians celebrate the Christmas holiday traditions, and plenty of C&E "psudo" Christians are out there too, myself being one of them. I believe in God, but I detest organized religion- I've had nothing but bad experiences with it.

    Your SIL is being a douche. And let her know the bible says, those who judge others are just as damned to hell as those who don't believe!!! We're all sinners, no? ;)

  • I am not religious and I celebrate Christmas. Don't know why you can't do the same for other religious holidays. Sorry you have such a nutty SIL.
  • I am sorry you are dealing with that. Her attitude sucks and her approach is crazycakes. I wouldn't say that it sounds like she is anti-Semitic in particular but rather she sounds anti anything that is not what she believes. Also, I think that many people do not understand the depth of Jewish identification and its unique trifold nature of being cultural, ethnic, and religious and that someone who is Jewish may identify with one, two, or all three of those aspects. I know that I didn't really get the richness of it until I took Modern Jewish Thought in college. I am not saying that excuses her behavior--she is out of line-- just that I think your education approach is an excellent one.  It sounds like you are managing boundaries really well and hanging in there with amazing strength and grace in such a frustrating, hurtful situation. I am so sorry you have to deal with this.

Sign In or Register to comment.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards