Babies: 3 - 6 Months

not trying to cause drama...just wondering if anyone knows the answer

when it comes to CIO, (personally i dont do it b/c i feel too guilty and most of the time i don't need to b/c DS is such a good baby) why do people say that a baby (under 4 months i believe..or maybe its 6 months..i forget) doesn't have the neurological ability to manipulate parents to get what he/she wants through crying, but yet has the neurological ability to lose trust if let to CIO????  I've just always been genuinely curious about this.  Again...not trying to cause drama....I really believe that CIO is something a parent has a right to decide whether or not to do with her child...no judgements here, either way..

Re: not trying to cause drama...just wondering if anyone knows the answer

  • That is a good question, albeit missing a bit of punctuation and sentence structure.

    I don't know for a fact, but I am guessing that it is because a baby has needs, the only way to communicate those needs is via crying.  My son is just about 5 months and he can absolutely manipulate us.  He will cry and fuss and as soon as we give him attention, he laughs--- he will do this over and over again.

    At the beginning, meeting the baby's basic needs=love.  If the parents don't come to respond to the baby's, baby gets upset and will eventually make the connection that he/she is not loved-- I am guessing it would have to happen often for this to happen.

    Like I said... I don't know for "sure"...

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  • Well "people" say that it's the longterm effects that cause the distrust (although I posted a counter-argument article to that this morning). It's not necessarily in-the-moment distrust but more the child giving up that their parent will come to soothe them and falling asleep of exhaustion (NOT my opinion, just answering your question).
  • To op: You took the words right out of my mouth! This has been my position for quite some time.
  • image Mandy613:
    You took the words right out of my mouth! This has been my position for quite some time.

    I'm fairly certain there was no position stated. She was asking a question.  

  • I was not inferring that it was HER position, I stated it was mine...and I think whether it is or not is for her to say.
  • I've also wondered that, but have been too chicken to ask Zip it!

    Personally, I think that babies are a lot smarter than people (in general) give them credit for... sure, he may not be doing it maliciously to deprive us of our sleep, but I'm 100% certain that my little guy knows that crying is a surefire, fast way to get Mommy & Daddy's attention at night, and that if he keeps crying long enough that we'll pick him up and rock him back to sleep.

    [center]Mommy to William (Nov '09) & James (Sept '11)[/center]
  • There is also the concept of attachment. Not "attachment parenting" which has become popular recently but the psychological principle pioneered by Alfred Adler. The idea is that we learn everything we need for all of our future relationships from the way that our parents treat us. As a young baby, we are taught that either we cry and our needs are met (forming secure attachment) or we cry and our needs are not met (forming insecure attachment). If we do not form secure attachment with our parents, it can cause issues in all of the future relationships in our lives (friends, SO, our children). But before you CIO mom's get mad, the theory also states that if a child is not encouraged to learn to meet their own needs in a loving way, they will also form an insecure attachment.  

    The point is that the question is a valid one. There is no "right" or "wrong" answer to the CIO debate. A mother knows what is best for her child 

    Gabriel 11/04/09 Vincent 9/17/11 Grace 8/02/13
  • image AfterAll:

    That is a good question, albeit missing a bit of punctuation and sentence structure.

    I don't know for a fact, but I am guessing that it is because a baby has needs, the only way to communicate those needs is via crying.  My son is just about 5 months and he can absolutely manipulate us.  He will cry and fuss and as soon as we give him attention, he laughs--- he will do this over and over again.

    At the beginning, meeting the baby's basic needs=love.  If the parents don't come to respond to the baby's, baby gets upset and will eventually make the connection that he/she is not loved-- I am guessing it would have to happen often for this to happen.

    Like I said... I don't know for "sure"...

    I am fairly certain I see an error or two in your post, as well.

  • I believe the Erik Erikson (who adopted from Freud) theory on stages of psychosocial development, is the model most health professionals use. His first stage is the infancy stage, labeled as "Trust vs. Mistrust," and is thought to go up to between a year and six months. If a baby gets all his needs met, he learns to trust the world and have hope. If he doesn't get them met, then he won't trust the world.

    It is thought that a very early baby cannot manipulate as they haven't learned cause and effect yet. So they know what they need, not how to get it. 

    Does that help?





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  • image JenniferTCU:
    image AfterAll:

    That is a good question, albeit missing a bit of punctuation and sentence structure.

    I don't know for a fact, but I am guessing that it is because a baby has needs, the only way to communicate those needs is via crying.  My son is just about 5 months and he can absolutely manipulate us.  He will cry and fuss and as soon as we give him attention, he laughs--- he will do this over and over again.

    At the beginning, meeting the baby's basic needs=love.  If the parents don't come to respond to the baby's, baby gets upset and will eventually make the connection that he/she is not loved-- I am guessing it would have to happen often for this to happen.

    Like I said... I don't know for "sure"...

    I am fairly certain I see an error or two in your post, as well.

    You seriously posted in this thread, for THAT?

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  • image JenniferTCU:
    image AfterAll:

    That is a good question, albeit missing a bit of punctuation and sentence structure.

    I don't know for a fact, but I am guessing that it is because a baby has needs, the only way to communicate those needs is via crying.  My son is just about 5 months and he can absolutely manipulate us.  He will cry and fuss and as soon as we give him attention, he laughs--- he will do this over and over again.

    At the beginning, meeting the baby's basic needs=love.  If the parents don't come to respond to the baby's, baby gets upset and will eventually make the connection that he/she is not loved-- I am guessing it would have to happen often for this to happen.

    Like I said... I don't know for "sure"...

    I am fairly certain I see an error or two in your post, as well.

    lol..thanks.  apparently i missed the memo that this was english class..

  • everyone's answers helped a lot!  thanks :)
  • image AfterAll:

    That is a good question, albeit missing a bit of punctuation and sentence structure.

    I don't know for a fact, but I am guessing that it is because a baby has needs, the only way to communicate those needs is via crying.  My son is just about 5 months and he can absolutely manipulate us.  He will cry and fuss and as soon as we give him attention, he laughs--- he will do this over and over again.

    At the beginning, meeting the baby's basic needs=love.  If the parents don't come to respond to the baby's, baby gets upset and will eventually make the connection that he/she is not loved-- I am guessing it would have to happen often for this to happen.

    Like I said... I don't know for "sure"...

    I'm still confused as to why people think your baby wanting you to love it and give it attention = manipulation.  Love and cuddling is as important a need as food.  You don't call it manipulation when they cry for food, right? 

  • image JinglesChic:

    I believe the Erik Erikson (who adopted from Freud) theory on stages of psychosocial development, is the model most health professionals use. His first stage is the infancy stage, labeled as "Trust vs. Mistrust," and is thought to go up to between a year and six months. If a baby gets all his needs met, he learns to trust the world and have hope. If he doesn't get them met, then he won't trust the world.

    It is thought that a very early baby cannot manipulate as they haven't learned cause and effect yet. So they know what they need, not how to get it. 

    Does that help?

    This.   It's all about needs being met.   Manipulation requires an understanding of cause and effect.  Trust/mistrust is connected with needs and whether or not they are met.  Completely different neurological processes that require different levels of cognitive development.

  • jshfjshf
    Ancient Membership 1000 Comments Combo Breaker
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    From what I have read, it's not that CIO is about manipulation. It's that babies' brains are still developing and their brain isn't able to regulate sleep like an adults until they are between 4-6 months and that's why they don't recommend sleep training.  

    Also babies are learning how to communicate, how things are related, how to control their bodies, environment, etc.  I don't think of crying to get mom or dad to respond to them is manipulation, just communication.

    I am choosing not to do CIO personally cause some research show that they have high levels of stress hormones when under prolonged stress and prolonged periods of crying.  They also show that even though a baby is not crying, they still have high levels of stress hormones.  

    There is a lot of controversy about attachment and trust issues developing when babies are left to CIO alone.   But as some bumpies have pointed out, there are multiple factors that influence trust development.  There is no single cause and effect.

    I am a worrier though and would blame myself for letting DS CIO if we didn't have a good bond when he was older.  

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