3rd Trimester

Tree_stump I'm confused

I remember your original post about special needs children in 1st tri very well, and as far as I remember the problem was that you think specail needs children need to be segregated, not that you hated them. You even re-stated that in your last post down below... so if you still have the same opinion why would re-posting it redeem you at all?

Re: Tree_stump I'm confused

  • aren't special needs children already sort of segregated? they are at least in the schools I went to. They had special classes for them. 

    I never saw her OP, but I've heard a LOT about it today.  

  • image luckyabby09:

    aren't special needs children already sort of segregated? they are at least in the schools I went to. They had special classes for them. 

    I never saw her OP, but I've heard a LOT about it today.  

    Usually they have a special class but some of their classes are the normal classes, like choir and gym. Also in elementary school they usually just have a personal helper and do everything with the rest of the class. At least in my district.

  • image armourall:
    image luckyabby09:

    aren't special needs children already sort of segregated? they are at least in the schools I went to. They had special classes for them. 

    I never saw her OP, but I've heard a LOT about it today.  

    Usually they have a special class but some of their classes are the normal classes, like choir and gym. Also in elementary school they usually just have a personal helper and do everything with the rest of the class. At least in my district.

    I am remembering my HS, I know in the elementary school my friend teaches at, they have a helper but she teaches 1st grade.

    In my old HS the more extreme cases, just stayed in the one class room. I don't remember what they did with the mild cases. Our teachers didn't have aides. 

    I always thought it was weird the segregation.  

  • I don't feel they should be segregated completely from people with no disabilities. I have a strong opinion that if they are being put into a classroom and have absolutely no ability to keep up, then what's the point? If they can keep up, then no harm is being done to anyone and they shouldn't be treated any differently.

    This isn't a perfect world though. Some districts can't afford special programs, I get that. I personally would not put my child in a school knowing very well that he is just going to be passed along. *shrug* It's my opinion. I get flamed for it. I deal. 


  • In my school, the special needs children only shared lunch periods with the rest of their classmates. I always felt bad for them because they were basically hidden away. If I had a special needs child, I wouldn't want them to be a part of that segregation. I'd rather send them to a school that was specifically designed for their capabilities. I remember that their "gym class" was held in the space between two sets of plexiglass doors. It looked like a cage at a zoo. Awful.
  • image francescaraul:
    In my school, the special needs children only shared lunch periods with the rest of their classmates. I always felt bad for them because they were basically hidden away. If I had a special needs child, I wouldn't want them to be a part of that segregation. I'd rather send them to a school that was specifically designed for their capabilities. I remember that their "gym class" was held in the space between two sets of plexiglass doors. It looked like a cage at a zoo. Awful.

    I agree that they should have schools specifically designed for their capabilities 

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  • image francescaraul:
    In my school, the special needs children only shared lunch periods with the rest of their classmates. I always felt bad for them because they were basically hidden away. If I had a special needs child, I wouldn't want them to be a part of that segregation. I'd rather send them to a school that was specifically designed for their capabilities. I remember that their "gym class" was held in the space between two sets of plexiglass doors. It looked like a cage at a zoo. Awful.

    If I lived in a district like that, then I would choose a private school or look for something else. I went to school with a girl who was severly hadicapped from kindergarten to graduation and it was very obvious the benefits of interacting with everyone else in the end, everyone knew her and she had friends.

    *Edit*

    This was not tree_stump's problem, she had a 6th grade class with a handicapped boy who passed even though he never did any work (he had a personal helper). She didn't think it was fair to him because there was no possible way he was learning what they were learning.

  • I am a general education HS English teacher but I have co-taught with a special educator in an inclusion classroom (meaning general education students and special education students in one room), so I'll try my best to explain my understanding of special education in our schools today.

     With No Child Left Behind, schools are now required by law to place students in the Least Restrictive Environment (LRE) that they are able to successfully thrive in within their school. Every student within the special education program has a meeting with 1 general education teacher (if they have any general education classes), 1 special education teacher, "paperwork" special education people within the school, the student and the parent. Prior to this meeting the school gathers information regarding the students work ethic, behavior and grades from each of their teachers and brings it to the meeting. It is there that the team of adults discusses and decides together what the best learning environment for the student is. Often times if a student struggles more in math, they may have a special education math class, but general education classes for the rest of their classes. Also, if a student needs a bit more help than the average student, yet is perfectly capable of functioning in a general education setting, then they are put into a class with 2 teachers-- a general education teacher and a special education teacher-- and they are able to get the extra help they need because there are more hands in the room. Every special education student also has an Individual Education Plan (IEP) that tells each of their teachers what modifications and accommodations they should receive in the classroom to be on a level playing field with the rest of the class (lengthened time on tests, verbatim reading, preferential seating, etc.).

    There are also different degrees of what the students can earn at the end of their educational career (although specifically, I don't know what-- I know they can earn a diploma, but they can also earn something else) and different standards for them to go by in the instance that they are seeking this alternate end result. So while this student in someone's old class passed without learning what the rest of the class learned, they still probably learned what was necessary for them to know for their learning track.

    Hope that helps, and feel free to correct anything that I've said and add on! Like I said, I am a general educator, I just have some experience with the special education "rules" nowadays. I do know for sure that it is the LAW that these meetings are held once a year and teachers provide whatever modifications and accommodations that are necessary for a student to succeed in the Least Restrictive Environment possible.

  • image alatchaw:

     So while this student in someone's old class passed without learning what the rest of the class learned, they still probably learned what was necessary for them to know for their learning track.

    Thank you!

  • image tree_stump:

    I don't feel they should be segregated completely from people with no disabilities. I have a strong opinion that if they are being put into a classroom and have absolutely no ability to keep up, then what's the point? If they can keep up, then no harm is being done to anyone and they shouldn't be treated any differently.

    This isn't a perfect world though. Some districts can't afford special programs, I get that. I personally would not put my child in a school knowing very well that he is just going to be passed along. *shrug* It's my opinion. I get flamed for it. I deal. 


    I am the mother of a special needs child. My son is 5 and has autism.  All of last year I drove him 1 1/2 hours one way to a school specifically for autism. Our town has one school but doesn't start until kindergarten. The school was over $4,000.00 a month. We did it for a year and it was a huge stress on our family. We are trying public schools this year and honestly he is thriving. We still pay for outside speech and occupational therapy which is still costly, but you do what you have to do for your child. I guess my point is, that it's easy for you to say you wouldn't put your kid in a public school where" he was going to get passed along *shrug*" so be prepared to shell out some big time dollars. Just my two cents on a issue that's very close to my heart.
  • image armourall:
    image alatchaw:

     So while this student in someone's old class passed without learning what the rest of the class learned, they still probably learned what was necessary for them to know for their learning track.

    Thank you!

    Exactly. Thank you. A little compassion goes a long way!
  • image armourall:

    image francescaraul:
    In my school, the special needs children only shared lunch periods with the rest of their classmates. I always felt bad for them because they were basically hidden away. If I had a special needs child, I wouldn't want them to be a part of that segregation. I'd rather send them to a school that was specifically designed for their capabilities. I remember that their "gym class" was held in the space between two sets of plexiglass doors. It looked like a cage at a zoo. Awful.

    If I lived in a district like that, then I would choose a private school or look for something else. I went to school with a girl who was severly hadicapped from kindergarten to graduation and it was very obvious the benefits of interacting with everyone else in the end, everyone knew her and she had friends.

    *Edit*

    This was not tree_stump's problem, she had a 6th grade class with a handicapped boy who passed even though he never did any work (he had a personal helper). She didn't think it was fair to him because there was no possible way he was learning what they were learning.

    Well, it was a girl that was in the class. And no, I don't think she was learning on the same level. She sat and stared at the ceiling and drooled all day. It's sad, but that's what happened. And then when test time came she and her helper went out in the hallway and the helper filled out the test. Again, what's the point?

  • Special needs kids in my high school could and would enroll in the same electives and classes as anyone else. In my school we chose every single class we took. Each special needs student had their own adult accompany them to the class to help them keep up. Oftentimes the teacher just gave them special work that they were required to finish in order to pass the class but none of us peers ever knew about it. And they were able to join in on projects with their classmates as well.

    I do NOT think they should be segregated whatsoever. The special kids at my school thrived and some were popular--- people didn't pick on them. Because of the diversity and because we (the rest of the school) were exposed to people with special needs we grew up with tolerance and social acceptance.

    To hide them away would not only give them the impression that they're  not acceptable but it also gives the world the impression that they aren't normal and not "like us" in a very negative way. Decades ago people FOUGHT to get their special needs children into the public school system because they saw the importance of it.

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