epidural or natural ?

Ceciliarocha123

this is my first pregnancy and im not sure which way to go ? 

any suggestions??

CandaceC1020

I think you mean med-free or epidural. 

It's a personal decision for you and none of us can really guide you in the direction  You need to figure out what is going to work best for you.  Start reading and educate yourself - you have to be leaning one way or the other.

duckie23

OP is correct in the wording of her question. Natural means med-free, not just vaginal.

I agree that it's a personal decision, but hearing how others made the decision might help you determine what you identify with. Personally, I'm preparing for a natural birth because I know women who have had very successful natural births (my mom, my SIL, and some of my mom's friends), and their stories are inspiring to me. I also trust my body's ability to do what it was designed to do and don't feel a lot of fear about childbirth. In many ways, I believe a low-intervention birth is the safest option for both mom and baby (for those with normal, low-risk pregnancies). If you're interested in learning more, I suggest reading Ina May's Guide to Childbirth and/or watching The Business of Being Born.

That said, I'm very grateful for modern medicine and technology and would 100% do whatever it takes to keep me and my baby safe. I also have zero judgement toward women who have births with more intervention. However you bring your baby into this world should be celebrated!

mamaloaf

I have ZERO regrets about getting the epidural. It was Heaven! I seriously didn't feel a damn thing. It was awesome! 

Agree with everyone else, though. That was the decision I made after researching my options. You should do the same (aside from asking this question)!

sschwege

I think regardless of what you ultimately decide it is always a good idea to research coping strategies for labor, breathing, different positions, water, massage, etc,.  Perhaps consider a class, we did Hypnobirthing and had a great experience both times using the techniques taught in the class.  Just as a med-free birth is guaranteed to no one, same thing as an epi (anyone of us could arrive too late for one).  I think it's good to plan for your ideal birth, while acknowledging that the plan might change. 

bhk3

I'm a first time mom-to-be and will be making this decision once I'm in active labor.  If I can do med-free, great, that would be awesome and that would be my preference. But if I go into labor and feel like it's too much then I'll get an epidural (keep in mind that you can't wait too long to make that call). I'm certainly not going to rule it out in advance.

Personally I feel like saying "I am GOING to have a med-free birth" (or any other drastic statements about what you absolutely will or will not do) is just setting yourself up for stress and disappointment if you aren't able to follow through. As some PPs mentioned, keep an open mind. You can never know exactly how the birthing process is going to play out, so I am keeping my preferences flexible so I can adapt to the situation as it changes.

drpayne

You're just now thinking about this?

This is my third. I had an epi with my first (failed natural birth attempt due to not progressing). My second was a natural water birth. Having done both, I'm hoping for a natural birth again. The natural birth board may be helpful to you.

amieeyoung

You can always go in with the intent of natural/med free, and then adjust if you need to while you are in labor. You should research especially if you are considering natural so you can have coping strategies. Last time I went in with the intent of natural as possible (since I was being induced) and nothing went to plan, but in the end I had a healthy baby. This time I am more open. I really hope to not be induced and go med free, but realize it may play out different. Good luck with your decision.

Amstreagle

duckie23 said:

OP is correct in the wording of her question. Natural means med-free, not just vaginal.

I agree that it's a personal decision, but hearing how others made the decision might help you determine what you identify with. Personally, I'm preparing for a natural birth because I know women who have had very successful natural births (my mom, my SIL, and some of my mom's friends), and their stories are inspiring to me. I also trust my body's ability to do what it was designed to do and don't feel a lot of fear about childbirth. In many ways, I believe a low-intervention birth is the safest option for both mom and baby (for those with normal, low-risk pregnancies). If you're interested in learning more, I suggest reading Ina May's Guide to Childbirth and/or watching The Business of Being Born.

That said, I'm very grateful for modern medicine and technology and would 100% do whatever it takes to keep me and my baby safe. I also have zero judgement toward women who have births with more intervention. However you bring your baby into this world should be celebrated!

So getting an epidural and giving birth is not natural?
That's such a load of shit! Don't cheapen others birth experience just because others choose differently than you and yes, saying that med-free means natural not just vaginal infers that having a medicated birth is unnatural.

PrimRoseMama

Ceciliarocha123 said:

this is my first pregnancy and im not sure which way to go ? 

any suggestions??

I've done both. Suggestion? I guess go as long as you can without then get the juice? :-??

drpayne

Amstreagle said:

duckie23 said:

OP is correct in the wording of her question. Natural means med-free, not just vaginal.

I agree that it's a personal decision, but hearing how others made the decision might help you determine what you identify with. Personally, I'm preparing for a natural birth because I know women who have had very successful natural births (my mom, my SIL, and some of my mom's friends), and their stories are inspiring to me. I also trust my body's ability to do what it was designed to do and don't feel a lot of fear about childbirth. In many ways, I believe a low-intervention birth is the safest option for both mom and baby (for those with normal, low-risk pregnancies). If you're interested in learning more, I suggest reading Ina May's Guide to Childbirth and/or watching The Business of Being Born.

That said, I'm very grateful for modern medicine and technology and would 100% do whatever it takes to keep me and my baby safe. I also have zero judgement toward women who have births with more intervention. However you bring your baby into this world should be celebrated!

So getting an epidural and giving birth is not natural?
That's such a load of shit! Don't cheapen others birth experience just because others choose differently than you and yes, saying that med-free means natural not just vaginal infers that having a medicated birth is unnatural.




Oh give me a damn break. There's a natural birth board on here. Google "natural birth." People have used the expression to refer to med-free for years and years and years. No one made it up to offend women who get epis. Only recently did some oversensitive person decide to be bothered by it. You're choosing to take offense where none is intended. Get over it.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

MNgirl326

I planned for a natural birth.  I got an epi.

I survived, so did DS.  Do what works for you to have a healthy delivery. 

schnitz9

ladycersei said:

Well I had an epi with both previous births and I intend to get one again. I personally enjoy reading a book or playing cards with my DH while in labor, helps the time go by quickly. I don't believe in "pain for a purpose" not do I believe that I have to feel every single sensation to fully immerse myself in the act of giving birth, no offense to those that do. However, my body still "naturally" went through the contractions and both of my kids came out "naturally" through my vag. While I don't take offense to the terms "medicated" or "natural" or whatever, I don't believe that my births were any less natural than the ladies who opt to go med-free. Baby comes out my vagina with no surgical intervention= natural, IMO.

I love this statement. This is the exact reason I am choosing the EPI. What am I trying to prove.  I have an extremly high threshold for pain so I know I can take it I don't have to prove it.  When I was 11 I had a very serious surgery on my bladder and kidneys.  I had 5 drains and a catheter that was directly out of my stomach.  The docs took all the tubes out without anesthesia or any numbing medicine and I felt everything.  In fact one of the tubes got stuck on a staple and they had to tug and tug to get it out.  One of the most painful things in my life.  I've had kidney stones which my mother (who's had 2 med-free births, 1 EPI, and 2 c-sections) was more painful.  I know I can handle it.  But this is the first time where I actually have the choice not to. This is in no way pain olympics, but ask yourself this.  If you were getting a procedure or surgery done and the doc says "I can give you anesthesia so your comfortable or I can not and you're gonna be in a lot of pain." Are you really gonna say "you know what I think I'm gonna choose the pain.  Why do we as women have to proves ourselves to everyone that we are strong.  We've already grown a human for 10 months.  To me that's strong enough.  Many may not agree with my opinion, but frankly I don't care it's what I want to do.  I would never tell a women who decides to go med-free that she's crazy.  Which is why I would hope that those same women stop telling me it's "un-natural" to have an EPI.  Why is it un-natural that I would like to rest and save my energy for the most important time when I actually had to push.  I have several friends that have gone med-free and had trouble pushing because they were so exhausted by that point. 

drpayne

schnitz9 said:

ladycersei said:

Well I had an epi with both previous births and I intend to get one again. I personally enjoy reading a book or playing cards with my DH while in labor, helps the time go by quickly. I don't believe in "pain for a purpose" not do I believe that I have to feel every single sensation to fully immerse myself in the act of giving birth, no offense to those that do. However, my body still "naturally" went through the contractions and both of my kids came out "naturally" through my vag. While I don't take offense to the terms "medicated" or "natural" or whatever, I don't believe that my births were any less natural than the ladies who opt to go med-free. Baby comes out my vagina with no surgical intervention= natural, IMO.

I love this statement. This is the exact reason I am choosing the EPI. What am I trying to prove.  I have an extremly high threshold for pain so I know I can take it I don't have to prove it.  When I was 11 I had a very serious surgery on my bladder and kidneys.  I had 5 drains and a catheter that was directly out of my stomach.  The docs took all the tubes out without anesthesia or any numbing medicine and I felt everything.  In fact one of the tubes got stuck on a staple and they had to tug and tug to get it out.  One of the most painful things in my life.  I've had kidney stones which my mother (who's had 2 med-free births, 1 EPI, and 2 c-sections) was more painful.  I know I can handle it.  But this is the first time where I actually have the choice not to. This is in no way pain olympics, but ask yourself this.  If you were getting a procedure or surgery done and the doc says "I can give you anesthesia so your comfortable or I can not and you're gonna be in a lot of pain." Are you really gonna say "you know what I think I'm gonna choose the pain.  Why do we as women have to proves ourselves to everyone that we are strong.  We've already grown a human for 10 months.  To me that's strong enough.  Many may not agree with my opinion, but frankly I don't care it's what I want to do.  I would never tell a women who decides to go med-free that she's crazy.  Which is why I would hope that those same women stop telling me it's "un-natural" to have an EPI.  Why is it un-natural that I would like to rest and save my energy for the most important time when I actually had to push.  I have several friends that have gone med-free and had trouble pushing because they were so exhausted by that point. 

It's obviously a personal decision and I think women should respect each other's choices.  I don't judge people who choose an epi at all and I don't make assumptions about their reasons behind their decisions.  I don't think you should assume that women who choose natural birth are doing it to prove something or are "choosing pain" or whatever.  I could list a million reasons why I didn't care for my hospital birth or why my water birth at a birthing center was just a better experience for me overall.  It didn't have all that much to do with the pain factor. 

jennypolkadots

Choosing to go without epidural isn't about proving yourself. I'm not trying to win the pain olympics and DH isn't going to be standing by with my medal. But I don't believe epidurals are without harmful side effects to the baby, and want to do what I can to give him or her the safest start to life. I also want the full experience of birth, including the surge of oxytocin that supports the natural bonding process that comes with a med-free birth. I want to be able to feel while pushing, so I can change positions and support my perineum if necessary to reduce the chance of tearing and improve fetal positioning. I want the easier recovery that tends to come with natural birth. I want to lessen my chances of needing an iv, catheter, forceps, vacuum, cesarean, pitocin, etc. I'm not saying that to degrade anyone's choices. It is totally a-okay to choose meds for your birth and there are some benefits, but at least know the pros and cons of each. Because of our birthing preferences, we chose to birth with midwives in an out of hospital setting where pain medicine will be off the table and I'll be fully supported in my birth plan. Things can still happen and we are preparing for that, but I want the best shot possible instead of just going in and seeing what happens.

OP you need to learn about both sides of this coin and make your own decision. Talk to other women and watch birth videos - both medicated and unmedicated. I have seen medicated labors that were very comfortable for the mother and they socialized and smiled through active labor, and baby was born perfect and healthy and nursed well. This is the most common outcome, and most women love having the epi. I have also seen epidurals not work and the mother be totally unprepared for labor because she was counting on the meds, and I've seen a baby go into distress after getting the epidural and a cesarean be performed.  I've also known women who prepared so much to go natural but felt they failed when things didn't go as planned, and this should never happen. If you have a baby, you have not failed at anything. I also agree with everyone else that giving life to a new person is the most natural thing ever, I don't care how it takes place. All birth is "natural" to me. 

duckie23

Amstreagle said:

duckie23 said:

OP is correct in the wording of her question. Natural means med-free, not just vaginal.

I agree that it's a personal decision, but hearing how others made the decision might help you determine what you identify with. Personally, I'm preparing for a natural birth because I know women who have had very successful natural births (my mom, my SIL, and some of my mom's friends), and their stories are inspiring to me. I also trust my body's ability to do what it was designed to do and don't feel a lot of fear about childbirth. In many ways, I believe a low-intervention birth is the safest option for both mom and baby (for those with normal, low-risk pregnancies). If you're interested in learning more, I suggest reading Ina May's Guide to Childbirth and/or watching The Business of Being Born.

That said, I'm very grateful for modern medicine and technology and would 100% do whatever it takes to keep me and my baby safe. I also have zero judgement toward women who have births with more intervention. However you bring your baby into this world should be celebrated!

So getting an epidural and giving birth is not natural?
That's such a load of shit! Don't cheapen others birth experience just because others choose differently than you and yes, saying that med-free means natural not just vaginal infers that having a medicated birth is unnatural.

The widely accepted definition of "natural birth" is minimal medical interventions. I was just reassuring the OP that how she worded her question was fine since someone "corrected" her right off that bat. 

I am not cheapening anyone else's birth experience. In fact, I said that all women should be celebrated--not judged--for however they give birth. You are choosing to be offended by something that's not offensive, and, quite frankly, that level of defensiveness makes it seem like you're insecure in your decision. No one is attacking you OR how you give birth.

jennypolkadots

Although I don't agree with the "natural" label for only med free birth, it is an acceptable term. Even the Bump has a board called "natural birth" that is dedicated to med-free births. So the two terms are obviously synonymous and used interchangeably in regular conversation. 

Giving birth in any way shape or form is beautiful and should be celebrated. Mothers who have cesareans shouldn't be degraded or told their birth was in any way "less than", but I don't think anyone here was trying to imply that either. The fact is most women choose the epidural and have a positive experience, but it's not for everyone and those of us who choose a med-free birth are mostly doing so because we believe it is safest for our child, not to win the pain olympics. 

ashiscute

jennypolkadots said:

Choosing to go without epidural isn't about proving yourself. I'm not trying to win the pain olympics and DH isn't going to be standing by with my medal. But I don't believe epidurals are without harmful side effects to the baby, and want to do what I can to give him or her the safest start to life. I also want the full experience of birth, including the surge of oxytocin that supports the natural bonding process that comes with a med-free birth. I want to be able to feel while pushing, so I can change positions and support my perineum if necessary to reduce the chance of tearing and improve fetal positioning. I want the easier recovery that tends to come with natural birth. I want to lessen my chances of needing an iv, catheter, forceps, vacuum, cesarean, pitocin, etc. I'm not saying that to degrade anyone's choices. It is totally a-okay to choose meds for your birth and there are some benefits, but at least know the pros and cons of each. Because of our birthing preferences, we chose to birth with midwives in an out of hospital setting where pain medicine will be off the table and I'll be fully supported in my birth plan. Things can still happen and we are preparing for that, but I want the best shot possible instead of just going in and seeing what happens.

OP you need to learn about both sides of this coin and make your own decision. Talk to other women and watch birth videos - both medicated and unmedicated. I have seen medicated labors that were very comfortable for the mother and they socialized and smiled through active labor, and baby was born perfect and healthy and nursed well. This is the most common outcome, and most women love having the epi. I have also seen epidurals not work and the mother be totally unprepared for labor because she was counting on the meds, and I've seen a baby go into distress after getting the epidural and a cesarean be performed.  I've also known women who prepared so much to go natural but felt they failed when things didn't go as planned, and this should never happen. If you have a baby, you have not failed at anything. I also agree with everyone else that giving life to a new person is the most natural thing ever, I don't care how it takes place. All birth is "natural" to me. 

Having an epidural doesn't mean you won't be able to feel while pushing.  I could feel exactly when to push and didn't need help or to be directed with either of my epidurals.  

Maebb

I got an epidural with DS, and it was great. Going in, I thought I'd try med-free for as long as I felt like it, but I wasn't opposed to an epi. After about an hour of real contractions, I was like, "Ok, that's enough, give me the drugs." I could still feel the pressure and feel to push, but it was much more pleasant with the epi.

OP, it's up to you, but I will be getting an epi with DS2 as long as there is time to do so.

schnitz9

jennypolkadots said:

Choosing to go without epidural isn't about proving yourself. I'm not trying to win the pain olympics and DH isn't going to be standing by with my medal. But I don't believe epidurals are without harmful side effects to the baby, and want to do what I can to give him or her the safest start to life. I also want the full experience of birth, including the surge of oxytocin that supports the natural bonding process that comes with a med-free birth. I want to be able to feel while pushing, so I can change positions and support my perineum if necessary to reduce the chance of tearing and improve fetal positioning. I want the easier recovery that tends to come with natural birth. I want to lessen my chances of needing an iv, catheter, forceps, vacuum, cesarean, pitocin, etc. I'm not saying that to degrade anyone's choices. It is totally a-okay to choose meds for your birth and there are some benefits, but at least know the pros and cons of each. Because of our birthing preferences, we chose to birth with midwives in an out of hospital setting where pain medicine will be off the table and I'll be fully supported in my birth plan. Things can still happen and we are preparing for that, but I want the best shot possible instead of just going in and seeing what happens.

OP you need to learn about both sides of this coin and make your own decision. Talk to other women and watch birth videos - both medicated and unmedicated. I have seen medicated labors that were very comfortable for the mother and they socialized and smiled through active labor, and baby was born perfect and healthy and nursed well. This is the most common outcome, and most women love having the epi. I have also seen epidurals not work and the mother be totally unprepared for labor because she was counting on the meds, and I've seen a baby go into distress after getting the epidural and a cesarean be performed.  I've also known women who prepared so much to go natural but felt they failed when things didn't go as planned, and this should never happen. If you have a baby, you have not failed at anything. I also agree with everyone else that giving life to a new person is the most natural thing ever, I don't care how it takes place. All birth is "natural" to me. 

@jennypolkadots Are you implying that an epidural caused a baby to go into distress? An Epidural is inserted directly into the mothers spine and NOT into their veins or bloodstream.  I've had an extensive talk with my doc and my next door neighbor who happens to be my anesthesiologist.  They both told me that the drugs used in an EPI do not reach the baby because they are not in the mothers bloodstream.  If a mother requests pain meds during labor and something is put into their IV that would effect the baby.  I don't think a baby going into distress during a labor using and EPI is due to the drugs it is dues to something else completely different.  And EPI can slow down labor yes but the drug themselves DO NOT effect the baby.

schnitz9

Here's a little tidbit that I thought should be added too.  There are risks either way.  If you are having a med-free birth and your baby needs an emergency c-section (HR drops drastically or the baby is in severe distress) they will not have time to give you a spinal.  You will have to go under general anesthesia.  This is a huge risk not just to the baby but to the mother.  Of course with an unplanned c-section like a breech or failure to progress there is time to start one. But if you already have an EPI and god forbid something drastic happens you already have the EPI started and being put to sleep does not have to be your only option.  I don't see to have the best of luck (as many on my BMB know) so i like know that I can be prepared for everything.

drpayne

duckie23 said:

Amstreagle said:

duckie23 said:

OP is correct in the wording of her question. Natural means med-free, not just vaginal.

I agree that it's a personal decision, but hearing how others made the decision might help you determine what you identify with. Personally, I'm preparing for a natural birth because I know women who have had very successful natural births (my mom, my SIL, and some of my mom's friends), and their stories are inspiring to me. I also trust my body's ability to do what it was designed to do and don't feel a lot of fear about childbirth. In many ways, I believe a low-intervention birth is the safest option for both mom and baby (for those with normal, low-risk pregnancies). If you're interested in learning more, I suggest reading Ina May's Guide to Childbirth and/or watching The Business of Being Born.

That said, I'm very grateful for modern medicine and technology and would 100% do whatever it takes to keep me and my baby safe. I also have zero judgement toward women who have births with more intervention. However you bring your baby into this world should be celebrated!

So getting an epidural and giving birth is not natural?
That's such a load of shit! Don't cheapen others birth experience just because others choose differently than you and yes, saying that med-free means natural not just vaginal infers that having a medicated birth is unnatural.

The widely accepted definition of "natural birth" is minimal medical interventions. I was just reassuring the OP that how she worded her question was fine since someone "corrected" her right off that bat. 

I am not cheapening anyone else's birth experience. In fact, I said that all women should be celebrated--not judged--for however they give birth. You are choosing to be offended by something that's not offensive, and, quite frankly, that level of defensiveness makes it seem like you're insecure in your decision. No one is attacking you OR how you give birth.

All of this x 1000.

jennypolkadots

@schnitz9 - I'm sorry you were misinformed. In an epidural, a very small amount of medicine does cross the placenta and there are marked side effects in the baby. These are usually very small and don't cause an issue. There is also the cascade of interventions in which the epidural necessitates the use of pitocin or other measures to help the delivery along and causes fetal distress. When you get an epidural, you will likely also get a narcotics drip which absolutely reaches the baby as well... but that's not what I was referring to. After reading everything I could get my hands on, my husband and I decided we preferred birth without pain medicine. It's not the right choice for every mother or every birth though.

Here is a good source that talks a bit about how anesthesia crosses the placenta via diffusion:

https://www.tinyprints.com/epidural-anesthesia.htm

"According to the Physician's Desk Reference, the medications used in epidurals cross the placenta by diffusion, which means some of the medication will reach the baby. How much of an effect these medications will have is difficult to judge and could vary based on dosage, how long labor continues and individual babies. Dosages and medications vary, so concrete information from research is lacking. Studies reveal that some babies may initially have trouble "latching on" among other difficulties with breastfeeding. While in-utero, they may become lethargic and have trouble getting into position for delivery. These medications have been known to cause respiratory depression, and decreased fetal heart rate in newborns. Though the medication may not harm the baby, the baby may experience subtle effects like those mentioned above."

For what it's worth the PDR is a compilation of manufacturer's prescribing information, not someone's opinion. 

You may also like to read through some studies on epidurals compiled by the Cochrane Review. I'm not demonizing the epidural and have seen it work wonders for many women who were glad to have it. It's just not the right choice for everyone and there are absolutely risks to the mother and baby that can be avoided with a med-free birth. 

leela02

I agree with the PPs about doing research and deciding which way you would personally prefer. The "better" way is whatever works out better for you and your baby.

Keep in mind that your plans may have to change during the course of your pregnancy or during labor. If you end up needing a c-section then you'll probably want the epidural for that. On the other hand, there are situations when you can't get an epidural, like if you deliver before an anesthesiologist is available. Even if you do get an epidural, it doesn't always work. So like the PPs said, it's good to take a birthing class to learn some coping strategies for either scenario.

Epidural is usually not the only pain med available in hospital births. You might also be offered IV narcotics as an option.

drpayne

ashiscute said:

jennypolkadots said:

Choosing to go without epidural isn't about proving yourself. I'm not trying to win the pain olympics and DH isn't going to be standing by with my medal. But I don't believe epidurals are without harmful side effects to the baby, and want to do what I can to give him or her the safest start to life. I also want the full experience of birth, including the surge of oxytocin that supports the natural bonding process that comes with a med-free birth. I want to be able to feel while pushing, so I can change positions and support my perineum if necessary to reduce the chance of tearing and improve fetal positioning. I want the easier recovery that tends to come with natural birth. I want to lessen my chances of needing an iv, catheter, forceps, vacuum, cesarean, pitocin, etc. I'm not saying that to degrade anyone's choices. It is totally a-okay to choose meds for your birth and there are some benefits, but at least know the pros and cons of each. Because of our birthing preferences, we chose to birth with midwives in an out of hospital setting where pain medicine will be off the table and I'll be fully supported in my birth plan. Things can still happen and we are preparing for that, but I want the best shot possible instead of just going in and seeing what happens.

OP you need to learn about both sides of this coin and make your own decision. Talk to other women and watch birth videos - both medicated and unmedicated. I have seen medicated labors that were very comfortable for the mother and they socialized and smiled through active labor, and baby was born perfect and healthy and nursed well. This is the most common outcome, and most women love having the epi. I have also seen epidurals not work and the mother be totally unprepared for labor because she was counting on the meds, and I've seen a baby go into distress after getting the epidural and a cesarean be performed.  I've also known women who prepared so much to go natural but felt they failed when things didn't go as planned, and this should never happen. If you have a baby, you have not failed at anything. I also agree with everyone else that giving life to a new person is the most natural thing ever, I don't care how it takes place. All birth is "natural" to me. 

Having an epidural doesn't mean you won't be able to feel while pushing.  I could feel exactly when to push and didn't need help or to be directed with either of my epidurals.  

I couldn't feel anything.  I needed a mirror.  So... it does happen.

ashiscute

drpayne said:

ashiscute said:

jennypolkadots said:

Choosing to go without epidural isn't about proving yourself. I'm not trying to win the pain olympics and DH isn't going to be standing by with my medal. But I don't believe epidurals are without harmful side effects to the baby, and want to do what I can to give him or her the safest start to life. I also want the full experience of birth, including the surge of oxytocin that supports the natural bonding process that comes with a med-free birth. I want to be able to feel while pushing, so I can change positions and support my perineum if necessary to reduce the chance of tearing and improve fetal positioning. I want the easier recovery that tends to come with natural birth. I want to lessen my chances of needing an iv, catheter, forceps, vacuum, cesarean, pitocin, etc. I'm not saying that to degrade anyone's choices. It is totally a-okay to choose meds for your birth and there are some benefits, but at least know the pros and cons of each. Because of our birthing preferences, we chose to birth with midwives in an out of hospital setting where pain medicine will be off the table and I'll be fully supported in my birth plan. Things can still happen and we are preparing for that, but I want the best shot possible instead of just going in and seeing what happens.

OP you need to learn about both sides of this coin and make your own decision. Talk to other women and watch birth videos - both medicated and unmedicated. I have seen medicated labors that were very comfortable for the mother and they socialized and smiled through active labor, and baby was born perfect and healthy and nursed well. This is the most common outcome, and most women love having the epi. I have also seen epidurals not work and the mother be totally unprepared for labor because she was counting on the meds, and I've seen a baby go into distress after getting the epidural and a cesarean be performed.  I've also known women who prepared so much to go natural but felt they failed when things didn't go as planned, and this should never happen. If you have a baby, you have not failed at anything. I also agree with everyone else that giving life to a new person is the most natural thing ever, I don't care how it takes place. All birth is "natural" to me. 

Having an epidural doesn't mean you won't be able to feel while pushing.  I could feel exactly when to push and didn't need help or to be directed with either of my epidurals.  

I couldn't feel anything.  I needed a mirror.  So... it does happen.


No shit Sherlock. But to assume you know how it will feel before hand and to inform someone else without having gone through it is incorrect. She has no idea how she'd react to an epi. I just wanted to point out that she is wrong about that.

schnitz9

jennypolkadots said:

@schnitz9 - I'm sorry you were misinformed. In an epidural, a very small amount of medicine does cross the placenta and there are marked side effects in the baby. These are usually very small and don't cause an issue. There is also the cascade of interventions in which the epidural necessitates the use of pitocin or other measures to help the delivery along and causes fetal distress. When you get an epidural, you will likely also get a narcotics drip which absolutely reaches the baby as well... but that's not what I was referring to. After reading everything I could get my hands on, my husband and I decided we preferred birth without pain medicine. It's not the right choice for every mother or every birth though.

Here is a good source that talks a bit about how anesthesia crosses the placenta via diffusion:

https://www.tinyprints.com/epidural-anesthesia.htm

"According to the Physician's Desk Reference, the medications used in epidurals cross the placenta by diffusion, which means some of the medication will reach the baby. How much of an effect these medications will have is difficult to judge and could vary based on dosage, how long labor continues and individual babies. Dosages and medications vary, so concrete information from research is lacking. Studies reveal that some babies may initially have trouble "latching on" among other difficulties with breastfeeding. While in-utero, they may become lethargic and have trouble getting into position for delivery. These medications have been known to cause respiratory depression, and decreased fetal heart rate in newborns. Though the medication may not harm the baby, the baby may experience subtle effects like those mentioned above."

For what it's worth the PDR is a compilation of manufacturer's prescribing information, not someone's opinion. 

You may also like to read through some studies on epidurals compiled by the Cochrane Review. I'm not demonizing the epidural and have seen it work wonders for many women who were glad to have it. It's just not the right choice for everyone and there are absolutely risks to the mother and baby that can be avoided with a med-free birth. 

This is not always true.  I have had a very extensive discussion with both my docs that a narcotics drip will not be needed.  What will be needed is IV fluids to keep my BP stable and a foley catheter which is inserted after the EPI so you will not feel it. Yes I agree that there is are risks but have a med free birth has the same risks as well although not as high.  My frustration comes from women who sometimes think that and epidural causes all these risks when in-fact these risks exist even with out one. BTW I'm not implying that you or anyone on this thread is one of those women.  Unfortunately I've been dealing with some IRL issues with women saying that I'm harming my baby by having one.  My point is there is no guarantee either way.

drpayne

ashiscute said:

No shit Sherlock. But to assume you know how it will feel before hand and to inform someone else without having gone through it is incorrect. She has no idea how she'd react to an epi. I just wanted to point out that she is wrong about that.

Wow, okay. 

Actually, what you said was 'Having an epidural doesn't mean you won't be able to feel while pushing."  True for you, not true for everyone. To say she was "wrong about that" really isn't correct because it can and does happen. I was just clarifying your blanket statement(s). 

ashiscute

drpayne said:

ashiscute said:

No shit Sherlock. But to assume you know how it will feel before hand and to inform someone else without having gone through it is incorrect. She has no idea how she'd react to an epi. I just wanted to point out that she is wrong about that.

Wow, okay. 

Actually, what you said was 'Having an epidural doesn't mean you won't be able to feel while pushing."  True for you, not true for everyone. To say she was "wrong about that" really isn't correct because it can and does happen. I was just clarifying your blanket statement(s). 

I'm sorry.  I didn't realize you needed so much clarification.  

CandaceC1020

Good gosh.  This thread is turning into a complete shit show. 

sschwege

schnitz9 said:

ladycersei said:

Well I had an epi with both previous births and I intend to get one again. I personally enjoy reading a book or playing cards with my DH while in labor, helps the time go by quickly. I don't believe in "pain for a purpose" not do I believe that I have to feel every single sensation to fully immerse myself in the act of giving birth, no offense to those that do. However, my body still "naturally" went through the contractions and both of my kids came out "naturally" through my vag. While I don't take offense to the terms "medicated" or "natural" or whatever, I don't believe that my births were any less natural than the ladies who opt to go med-free. Baby comes out my vagina with no surgical intervention= natural, IMO.

I love this statement. This is the exact reason I am choosing the EPI. What am I trying to prove.  I have an extremly high threshold for pain so I know I can take it I don't have to prove it.  When I was 11 I had a very serious surgery on my bladder and kidneys.  I had 5 drains and a catheter that was directly out of my stomach.  The docs took all the tubes out without anesthesia or any numbing medicine and I felt everything.  In fact one of the tubes got stuck on a staple and they had to tug and tug to get it out.  One of the most painful things in my life.  I've had kidney stones which my mother (who's had 2 med-free births, 1 EPI, and 2 c-sections) was more painful.  I know I can handle it.  But this is the first time where I actually have the choice not to. This is in no way pain olympics, but ask yourself this.  If you were getting a procedure or surgery done and the doc says "I can give you anesthesia so your comfortable or I can not and you're gonna be in a lot of pain." Are you really gonna say "you know what I think I'm gonna choose the pain.  Why do we as women have to proves ourselves to everyone that we are strong.  We've already grown a human for 10 months.  To me that's strong enough.  Many may not agree with my opinion, but frankly I don't care it's what I want to do.  I would never tell a women who decides to go med-free that she's crazy.  Which is why I would hope that those same women stop telling me it's "un-natural" to have an EPI.  Why is it un-natural that I would like to rest and save my energy for the most important time when I actually had to push.  I have several friends that have gone med-free and had trouble pushing because they were so exhausted by that point. 

I think some of it boils down to the fact that everyone feels things differently, for some women the sensations are different.  For me it felt like an intense, sometimes extreme tightening.  But I never would have labeled it as 'pain'.  In fact 4 days before I went into labor with DD I had really bad sciatic nerve pain and I remember thinking, "If labor is anything like this I'm getting the epi!"  For me it was just highly intense, required all my concentration, but not pain.  So I think that's a huge part of why I didn't get one, because I guess I never felt as if I was 'choosing pain' as you put it. 

I think for me it was less about proving something or hoping for a medal.  I mean after you leave the hospital who the hell knows how you had your baby anyway?  But more because I liked the idea of being able to move around and I was scared of the epi not working properly.  My SIL said the epi only worked on part of her body, to me that would be a nightmare to be unable to get up, change positions, etc but still feel everything on half your body.  The worst part of my labor with DD was when I was stuck in bed for the first 20 minutes in triage when they wanted me on the monitors.

I get what you are saying in a sense.  I know there are women out there who feel their birth was superior and are more than happy to rub it in other women's faces.  I just wanted to offer another side. @schnitz9

drpayne

ashiscute said:

drpayne said:

ashiscute said:

No shit Sherlock. But to assume you know how it will feel before hand and to inform someone else without having gone through it is incorrect. She has no idea how she'd react to an epi. I just wanted to point out that she is wrong about that.

Wow, okay. 

Actually, what you said was 'Having an epidural doesn't mean you won't be able to feel while pushing."  True for you, not true for everyone. To say she was "wrong about that" really isn't correct because it can and does happen. I was just clarifying your blanket statement(s). 

I'm sorry.  I didn't realize you needed so much clarification.  

ashiscute said:

drpayne said:

ashiscute said:

No shit Sherlock. But to assume you know how it will feel before hand and to inform someone else without having gone through it is incorrect. She has no idea how she'd react to an epi. I just wanted to point out that she is wrong about that.

Wow, okay. 

Actually, what you said was 'Having an epidural doesn't mean you won't be able to feel while pushing."  True for you, not true for everyone. To say she was "wrong about that" really isn't correct because it can and does happen. I was just clarifying your blanket statement(s). 

I'm sorry.  I didn't realize you needed so much clarification.  

???  Lol.  I didn't say I needed clarification. (I don't.)  I said I was clarifying.  As in, explaining to other women who may be misinformed/misled by your posts.  Big difference.  I can't believe I have to explain this to someone.

bigtuna486

drpayne said:

duckie23 said:

OP is correct in the wording of her question. Natural means med-free, not just vaginal.

I agree that it's a personal decision, but hearing how others made the decision might help you determine what you identify with. Personally, I'm preparing for a natural birth because I know women who have had very successful natural births (my mom, my SIL, and some of my mom's friends), and their stories are inspiring to me. I also trust my body's ability to do what it was designed to do and don't feel a lot of fear about childbirth. In many ways, I believe a low-intervention birth is the safest option for both mom and baby (for those with normal, low-risk pregnancies). If you're interested in learning more, I suggest reading Ina May's Guide to Childbirth and/or watching The Business of Being Born.

That said, I'm very grateful for modern medicine and technology and would 100% do whatever it takes to keep me and my baby safe. I also have zero judgement toward women who have births with more intervention. However you bring your baby into this world should be celebrated!

So getting an epidural and giving birth is not natural?
That's such a load of shit! Don't cheapen others birth experience just because others choose differently than you and yes, saying that med-free means natural not just vaginal infers that having a medicated birth is unnatural.

Oh give me a damn break. There's a natural birth board on here. Google "natural birth." People have used the expression to refer to med-free for years and years and years. No one made it up to offend women who get epis. Only recently did some oversensitive person decide to be bothered by it. You're choosing to take offense where none is intended. Get over it.

Couldn't have said this better myself! So tired of people getting offended over every little thing. 

soulcupcake

schnitz9 said:

Here's a little tidbit that I thought should be added too.  There are risks either way.  If you are having a med-free birth and your baby needs an emergency c-section (HR drops drastically or the baby is in severe distress) they will not have time to give you a spinal.  You will have to go under general anesthesia.  This is a huge risk not just to the baby but to the mother.  Of course with an unplanned c-section like a breech or failure to progress there is time to start one. But if you already have an EPI and god forbid something drastic happens you already have the EPI started and being put to sleep does not have to be your only option.  I don't see to have the best of luck (as many on my BMB know) so i like know that I can be prepared for everything.

True stat c-section is rare, and by emergent I don't mean baby presents patterns of distress and is eventually taken for c-section. I mean legit crash c-section where general anesthesia is the only option and decision to delivery is <15 min, not the national average of 30-45 min (yes, the national average time frame for emergency c-sections, decision to delivery, is 30-45 min), which is not "OMBob!! Baby is going to die any minute!!!" emergent, is it? 

The vast majority of late and prolonged decelerations are the result of uterine hyperactivity, which is caused by what? Uterine stimulants. For the majority of low risk pregnant women who opt for med-free birth they prefer to opt out of various interventions, especially stimulants like pitocin and misoprostol that are known to cause uterine hyperstimulation and fetal distress. In cases of late decelerations as the result of uterine hyperstimulation, the decel is observed over a period of time before the decision is made to section. The decision is often made once the provider has observed a pattern and can see whether the baby recovers, how long it takes to recover, and whether lowering the dosage (pitocin), maternal oxygen, and position changes can remedy the decels.

Late variable decelerations are often caused by cord compression, and what increases the risks of cord compression? Consenting to AROM/amniotomy. Once the membranes are ruptured the baby no longer has free range of motion to move in the uterus, increases the chance of compressing the cord or the cord getting pinched if in an awkward position. The membranes also no longer cushion the cervix and protect the amnion/chorion from infection. 

Prolonged decels resulting in hypoxia are very worrisome, but they're uncommon in births where there are few or no interventions that increase these risks. It is rare for a low intervention birth with optimal fetal positioning to all of sudden turn to shit in an instant (and I'm very familiar with devastating/scary situations and losses). Cord prolapse (also a risk of AROM) and cord compression where there's a delay in HR returning to baseline are situations that necessitate swift action, but the risks can be greatly reduced by declining or limiting interventions.

In no shit emergency c-sections, where the complication gives little warning (unlike induced and augmented births. Statistically, the vast majority of cases involving decels leading to c-section were augmented or induced), general anesthesia is the only option. Except in rare situations, decels are observed over a period of time. It isn't a situation where one minute there were no decels and the next baby's HR is in the 50s and not returning to baseline. Extremely rare, and it would be fallacious to argue for an intervention for a complication that is unlikely to happen. I mean, one could argue the same (epidural analgesia) just in case they develop an amniotic fluid embolism or spontaneous severe placental abruption. 

The only logical thing one can do, if they so choose, is decide what birth they want, what risks they're comfortable with, and go from there. If someone is hellbent on unnecessary interventions then it makes sense to choose an environment and birth options that best facilitates that.

ETA: (Speaking in general)

Re: "natural" vs. med-free. Technically, if we're going based on the basic definition of "natural," it means free from artificiality. For "purists" that can be all interventions (from heplock, VEs to uterine stimulants, analgesia, narcotics), and, technically, they have a point. Since that is the definition of "natural." However, many simply use it to refer to low intervention/med-free or physiological birth, which involves the fewest (or no) interventions as possible.

I, personally, tend to use "med-free" the majority of the time. I don't get hung up on the definition and how others choose to apply it. Purists can (and will -- I know these types) say my med-free hospital birth wasn't truly natural because I had a hep lock and AROM. I'm couldn't care less about defining it as "natural" because in the end, I got the birth I was planning. They could also say both homebirths weren't natural because they were induced (most recent after 18 hours of SROM) and my cervix was checked toward the end. Meh. I couldn't give a rat's ass how they're defined. It's a matter of semantics. How other people choose to apply a term is their prerogative. It needn't lessen or cheapen other mothers' birth experiences.

BookitBoo

I think you should educate yourself. Talk to your doctor about articles or literature they may have.

The term 'natural' is very loaded. Saying that the term has always been used and should always be acceptable is ridiculous -- when you know better, do better. Lots of things change and develop from their origins. If you think hard enough I'm sure you can come up with some terms that are no longer used because they are inaccurate or insensitive. A more accurate term in this case would be non-medicated vaginal birth.

drpayne

BookitBoo said:

I think you should educate yourself. Talk to your doctor about articles or literature they may have.

The term 'natural' is very loaded. Saying that the term has always been used and should always be acceptable is ridiculous -- when you know better, do better. Lots of things change and develop from their origins. If you think hard enough I'm sure you can come up with some terms that are no longer used because they are inaccurate or insensitive. A more accurate term in this case would be non-medicated vaginal birth.

It's not loaded. At all. It's an asinine thing to be offended by.

From a dictionary:
natural: existing in nature and not made or caused by people : coming from nature
: not having any extra substances or chemicals added : not containing anything artificial
: usual or expected

Just because a few hypersensitive people want to make an issue out of nothing doesn't mean everyone else needs to stop using a word. As a previous poster mentioned, defensive people are usually insecure about some thing.

BookitBoo

drpayne said:

BookitBoo said:

I think you should educate yourself. Talk to your doctor about articles or literature they may have.

The term 'natural' is very loaded. Saying that the term has always been used and should always be acceptable is ridiculous -- when you know better, do better. Lots of things change and develop from their origins. If you think hard enough I'm sure you can come up with some terms that are no longer used because they are inaccurate or insensitive. A more accurate term in this case would be non-medicated vaginal birth.

It's not loaded. At all. It's an asinine thing to be offended by.

From a dictionary:
natural: existing in nature and not made or caused by people : coming from nature
: not having any extra substances or chemicals added : not containing anything artificial
: usual or expected

Just because a few hypersensitive people want to make an issue out of nothing doesn't mean everyone else needs to stop using a word. As a previous poster mentioned, defensive people are usually insecure about some thing.

LOL

From a dictionary

Main entry: natural
Definition: in accordance with nature; relating to or concerning nature
Usage: a very natural development; our natural environment; natural science; natural resources; natural cliffs; natural phenomena

Antonyms: unnatural
Definition: not in accordance with or determined by nature; contrary to nature
Usage: an unnatural death; the child's unnatural interest in death


It's not about people being defensive or insecure. It's about recognizing something is inaccurate. If a 'natural' birth is med free and vaginal then any birth that is not med free or non-vaginal are unnatural. It's pretty basic...and inaccurate. You can definitely call it what you want but stubbornly holding on to a term that is inaccurate for shits and giggles is just beyond me.

Also, It is a loaded term, and even though it doesn't offend you doesn't mean it's inoffensive. In fact, with so many people expressing how offensive it is I don't see how you can see that it 'isn't offensive.' Those feelings are legit.