Warning- "divine intervention" video

lexusolsen

Ok so I saw this while on my break at work today. In it, a couple finds out that their baby, who had previously been diagnosed with a terminal defect was cured. They say because of divine intervention.



Before we lost our son Ben, my husband and I were at odds with the Catholic Church over things like gay marriage and abortion. We still went to church a few times a month and our parents are very active in the catholic community. We were considering finding a church that was more welcoming (that's the best word I can come up with. I might change it later).

Now, I feel like God abandoned us. Dh says he doesn't believe in God anymore. If people like this think that God choose to save their baby, then what does that mean for people like us, who lost one or more babies? Does that mean that we or our babies aren't as worthy or faithful as those whose babies are saved? Are our babies taken as a punishment for something we did or didn't do?

I can't seem to make sense of God anymore. If he loves me and my family then why take my perfectly healthy son? I know someone else who was in a car accident just before we were. Her baby (further along than I was) is perfectly healthy. My son is dead. I can't make sense of this. I'm not trying to start a war. I'm just lost and I don't know where else to go. Any ideas?

lexusolsen

Where is the link?!

Eta here it is. https://sfglobe.com/?id=17391&src=share_fb_new_17391

forevermyfenix

Essentially what I've had to come to terms is that God has to be more like someone who left a Sims game running. Natural laws cause bad shit to happen to good people despite their efforts and God decided not to intervene.
Sorry that's all I've been able to come up with.

lexusolsen

forevermyfenix said:

Essentially what I've had to come to terms is that God has to be more like someone who left a Sims game running. Natural laws cause bad shit to happen to good people despite their efforts and God decided not to intervene.
Sorry that's all I've been able to come up with.

That makes sense to me. I just can't bring myself to pray to him anymore. I feel so lost.

dadalou

I'm sorry you are struggling with this. My view is that God doesn't cause bad things to happen to us to punish us. God is good. All the time. He didn't take our babies because of something we have done. Sometimes bad things happen because of the choices we make (or others make).

I don't know why my perfectly healthy son died either. It doesn't make any sense. Sometimes there just aren't any answers. But God knows why. Eventually we might too. It just might not be in this life.

ikrystal

forevermyfenix said:

Essentially what I've had to come to terms is that God has to be more like someone who left a Sims game running. Natural laws cause bad shit to happen to good people despite their efforts and God decided not to intervene. Sorry that's all I've been able to come up with.

**ticker warning**

This.  I think God may be all-knowing but at the same time didnt necessarily cause things to happen.  My husband and I talked about how a big point of life (maybe THE point) is to prove to God that we are worthy for heaven, and we can only do that with free will and without His intervention.  I would hate to think that God caused any of our losses. 

Maybe Joleisa

I hear where you are coming from and struggle with this a lot, too. Life has handed me a pretty ugly hand of cards since 2009 and every year I think things will turn around, but they do not. I cringe when people talk about how "blessed" they are; I think they are just lucky.

I'm certain God isn't doing these things to me, personally. I know when I lost my boys (and everyone else these past 5 years) God cried along with me. While I have had a difficult time returning to church and praying since our loss, I do feel like I am being lifted up in prayers by others. I can't explain it.

I don't think I want to watch the video, but I'm not sure I believe in divine intervention. I think they were lucky.

schulme2

I watched this video too. I would say last year it would have pissed me off so much. Right now, however, it gave me a little hope. I have struggled tremendously with my faith over these past 18 months. I was sure that God made all things happen and that I was a good person so why would He hurt us and take our daughter from us? "your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." << Psalm 139:16>>

I have to keep reminding myself that God didn't do this to us to get back at us for something we did wrong. He knew that this was going to happen, That this was Mary's journey (Even in spite of His love for us). He has tried to keep us close to him in order to help us make it through this horrible, devastating time.

It's still a struggle sometimes as I get so mad at Him for letting this happen but I know that God can take my anger and if I have my anger to direct at Him, it's not going to a bad place.

I'm so sorry this is a struggle, but I pray that He will bring you peace and knowledge that He is still with you and wants you to lean on him even more now.

Emren

Very sorry for your loss. I lost a set of twin girls. I cant explain why this happened except that bad things happen to good ppl. I do know that you and your little one are loved by God and that His heart breaks with us when we morn our children.  Have you thought about speaking with a pastor or close friends about what you are going through? 

((Hugs and Love))

Emren0316  

Mel&John2013

***siggy warning

I can't bring myself to watch the video because I'm in the same boat as you. My faith has been shaken. I know it would just make me angry seeing a family who God chose to save, while my baby had to leave me. I have to question what kind of God would allow that to happen. I'm angry, and if God is all loving as I was taught then he'll just have to deal with my anger and forgive me for it.

My husband and I have also struggled with the Catholic church. I wasn't raised Catholic but my husband was and it was important to him that we be involved in the church. But over the past few years he noticed the church wasn't exactly open or welcoming, perhaps because I'm not Catholic. The priest we met with didn't have any interest in knowing us or our faith but was pretty much just interested in telling us how things should be. I started our marriage willing to be a part of the church community even if I didn't share all of the same Catholic beliefs, but that willingness has definitely decreased for both of us. Maybe it's time for us to find a new church.

schulme2

One of my friends sent me this from her church... https://bocacommunity.org/sermon/595 the pastor and his wife lost their son and he gives a great talk on suffering. Just wanted to pass along if anyone was interested.

lexusolsen

Maybe Joleisa said:

I hear where you are coming from and struggle with this a lot, too. Life has handed me a pretty ugly hand of cards since 2009 and every year I think things will turn around, but they do not. I cringe when people talk about how "blessed" they are; I think they are just lucky.

I'm certain God isn't doing these things to me, personally. I know when I lost my boys (and everyone else these past 5 years) God cried along with me. While I have had a difficult time returning to church and praying since our loss, I do feel like I am being lifted up in prayers by others. I can't explain it.

I don't think I want to watch the video, but I'm not sure I believe in divine intervention. I think they were lucky.

Luck was my feeling too. I feel like the logic has to go both ways- you can't argue that God saves people but then say he doesn't take people... It doesn't compute. Either he intervenes or he doesn't.

Littleowl913

I'm sorry you're struggling with this. When I was dealing with the death of my cousin, I had to give into the belief that God had a plan - I could not for the life of me understand why his plan had to involve taking her to heaven at the age of 17, but I had to believe in this to obtain some measure of peace. I rely on this belief now as I grieve for my son. Don't get me wrong, I'm struggling with my faith - I could not get myself to go to Church on all saint's day, despite my mother's guilt trip - but I just can't let my mind go down that road of being angry at God, etc because I would never be able to function. I would just sit home crying and berating God.

erinel

***sig warning***

I am also Catholic, and have also been struggling with how I feel about religion and God since losing our son.  I don't have any answers, but when prayer came up in one of my support groups, someone shared something that I found simple and profound, so I thought I'd share it here.  Basically, one woman said that she didn't believe in miracles anymore, and had a hard time praying, because she didn't know how effective it was.  Another person in the group said "God always answers prayers, but sometimes the answer is 'no'".  That really stuck with me, and I think makes me feel a little better?  It's hard to describe. 

When we were in the NICU with our son, I could literally *feel* the prayers from the thousands of people all around the world praying for us.  When Q died, I felt like, what is the point of praying if all those people were pulling for us, and we still didn't get a miracle.  I still don't necessarily see the point of prayer, and am working on my faith.

msunshine123

I agree with the previous posters. I think God cried right along with us when we lost our son and has been helping us since we lost our son. I think this couple did have a miracle, but I believe miracles are very rare - they don't happen all the time because then they would not be miracles. And then why would we have faith?  Do I wish God had performed a miracle and saved our son?- absolutely! But I do believe my son is in the best place possible - he received a free pass from the hardships and challenges of this world and went straight to heaven and I am sure he is very happy.

lexusolsen

msunshine123 said:

I agree with the previous posters. I think God cried right along with us when we lost our son and has been helping us since we lost our son. I think this couple did have a miracle, but I believe miracles are very rare - they don't happen all the time because then they would not be miracles. And then why would we have faith?  Do I wish God had performed a miracle and saved our son?- absolutely! But I do believe my son is in the best place possible - he received a free pass from the hardships and challenges of this world and went straight to heaven and I am sure he is very happy.

See this doesn't comfort me. Someone told me at our son's memorial service that I should be thankful that I had one child in heaven already. But I don't have kids to get them to heaven, I have kids because I want to raise them, love them, and watch them grow. I only get to love Ben. I don't get to raise him and watch him develop into an amazing person.

schulme2

Ladies...

I just want to say thank you for this discussion. I have really struggled with my faith and who God is but I have recently found a peace with it. It's really hard for me to put into words "why" or "how" but some of you have really put into words what I couldn't and I really appreciate it.

forevermyfenix

I also struggle with the thought that right now my son is in heaven. Judgment day hasn't happened therefore no one has been judged to get into heaven. Following the actual time line given in revelations, no human would be there right now. And I really wish people would stop saying he's an angel. The Bible says nothing about us changing species and becoming angels.

stefuge

I think so many good points have been shared, and I have been thinking of my response to this so many times, and I appreciate that we are having this discussion.

I believe that God is in control. I don't believe he caused our losses, as flutteryfly88 said, but rather allowed them to happen. I believe He has a plan, and it is good and perfect. I have faith in His goodness and can trust His plan for my life. I hate that that plan included my son dying, but I can have peace knowing that God is in control. He cried with me when Colton died, but reassured me with knowing that Colton will never feel pain, or fear, or hurt. I know that I will see my son again some day, and that this time apart is just the blink of an eye in the scope of eternity.

Bad things don't happen just to "bad" people, they happen to everyone. That has become very obvious to me since our loss. God does not promise an easy life if we believe in Him, quite the opposite. He promises we will have trials and tribulations in this life, but that in the midst of that, He will be there to hold us close. Everyone has something - some trial, some pain, some struggle. Losing Colton was just part of our story. I hate it. I absolutely hate it. I would take financial troubles, or illness, or just about anything over losing my son, but that decision was not up to me.

And the reassurance that God is in control? I feel His constant comfort, and love, and peace. From when I was pregnant (back when losing Colton seemed impossible), and could feel Him telling me that He loved Colton, He held him in his hands, and that this baby would change my life forever, to the reassuring comfort and worship songs running through my head in the midst of the c section, to the support and prayers of our friends and family these past 14 months. Psalms tells us that God knew Colton before he was conceived and he was beautifully and perfectly made. The days of Colton's life were known and counted before they came to be, and his death was no accident or surprise, it just was.

flutterfly88 said:

Also I don't think He wants us to prove that we are worthy of Heaven, because I believe that we aren't. We have all done wrong, so we can't measure up to His standard. But the good news is, we don't have to try and measure up. I believe that God sent His son to die so that we have a way of getting to Heaven. If we choose to love and trust God, and to follow Him, then through Jesus, we will get to Heaven.  

And, this. All of this.

Edited to try and fix the quote box.

lexusolsen

Thank you for this discussion. I know it's uncomfortable at times- this is tough stuff. You ladies have given me more to think about.

Mel&John2013

lexusolsen said:

I agree with the previous posters. I think God cried right along with us when we lost our son and has been helping us since we lost our son. I think this couple did have a miracle, but I believe miracles are very rare - they don't happen all the time because then they would not be miracles. And then why would we have faith?  Do I wish God had performed a miracle and saved our son?- absolutely! But I do believe my son is in the best place possible - he received a free pass from the hardships and challenges of this world and went straight to heaven and I am sure he is very happy.

See this doesn't comfort me. Someone told me at our son's memorial service that I should be thankful that I had one child in heaven already. But I don't have kids to get them to heaven, I have kids because I want to raise them, love them, and watch them grow. I only get to love Ben. I don't get to raise him and watch him develop into an amazing person.

I'm sorry, but I hate the person who told you to be thankful to have a child in heaven. It's not a blessing, it's a burden. Not getting to hold my baby and give him kisses is a burden.

Mel&John2013

Mel&John2013 said:

I'm sorry, but I hate the person who told you to be thankful to have a child in heaven. It's not a blessing, it's a burden. Not getting to hold my baby and give him kisses is a burden.

I feel bad, that was a little harsh. I just get so frustrated when people try to logic away the pain. 

jenn.schott

I have not been overly religious in my adult life but was brought up Catholic. Up until my son's death, I strongly believed in God but did not care for going to churches because of personal issues where I began to see how corrupt and money hungry some were (yes - I did try multiple churches and religions). DH has never believed in God.

 

The only thing that I now truly believe is that my son (and other close family and friends that have gone before) are in heaven. This may be a coping mechanism but neverless. I take comfort that he was strong until the very end and is now pain free. This doesn't make anything any easier.

 

I can not bring myself to believe in God at this time. I may in the future return to my beliefs but my son went through way too much for me to even think about it....

lexusolsen

jenn.schott said:

I have not been overly religious in my adult life but was brought up Catholic. Up until my son's death, I strongly believed in God but did not care for going to churches because of personal issues where I began to see how corrupt and money hungry some were (yes - I did try multiple churches and religions). DH has never believed in God.

 

The only thing that I now truly believe is that my son (and other close family and friends that have gone before) are in heaven. This may be a coping mechanism but neverless. I take comfort that he was strong until the very end and is now pain free. This doesn't make anything any easier.

 

I can not bring myself to believe in God at this time. I may in the future return to my beliefs but my son went through way too much for me to even think about it....

I am right there with you!

msunshine123

@lexusolsen - I'm sorry what I stated is just what comforts me.  I agree with you in that I would prefer and give anything to have my son here with me now each and everyday. I can not believe the comment someone said to you at your son's memorial - that was just wrong on so many levels.

lexusolsen

msunshine123 said:

@lexusolsen - I'm sorry what I stated is just what comforts me.  I agree with you in that I would prefer and give anything to have my son here with me now each and everyday. I can not believe the comment someone said to you at your son's memorial - that was just wrong on so many levels.

I was offended by what you said and I hope I didn't offend you. It just doesn't comfort me.

msunshine123

@lexusolsen - I'm sorry my comment offended you - it was not what I intended. I was only trying to state what comforts me in hopes it could comfort you too. I'm sorry it didn't. No worries

lexusolsen

msunshine123 said:

@lexusolsen - I'm sorry my comment offended you - it was not what I intended. I was only trying to state what comforts me in hopes it could comfort you too. I'm sorry it didn't. No worries

Darn typos! @msunshine123‌ I meant that I wasn't offended! I'm so sorry!

BLPL101

My baby is still alive inside of me, but I know will not live. I don't know when that day will be, but so many of you ladies encouraged me more than you could imagine. Your faith is awe-inspiring. Thank you.