Im avoiding long ass quote trees. @JCWhitey - I pumped at work from when DS was 9 weeks until his first birthday. I HAD to pump every 3 hours, 30 minutes each time to maintain my supply and have the necessary number of let downs to produce enough for him. Any change from that pumping regiment resulted in ounces less milk.
I don't mean to scare people when talking about how hard breastfeeding and pumping can be. But it's only fair to make sure that women don't have unrealistic expectations of what breastfeeding entails. If we make it sound like its some easy, painless thing, then we're truly only making it harder for some new moms to continue when times get tough. They wonder what's wrong with THEM that it's so hard? And if they don't hear how hard it has been for others and how others survived it, how will they know that they too can make it out alive?
PSA- there are some fantastic women on the breastfeeding board. They are all prepared to help struggling moms that are having a hard time powering through the hard times. And there ARE hard times. I encourage all FTMs to consider that board a resource. They were a life saver for me.
This message exactly! Every time we mitigate how difficult it can be, and breezily say 'oh don't worry' then we set someone up for shame and isolation when it isn't easy for them. BFing is work. Period. It can be painful. Period. Being dismissive and saying "oh well it's super easy for me, and I can do it one-handed" is stupid and lacking empathy. Hey, it's easy for me to pick up 50lbs of weight, should I condescend to everyone that can't and snot about how easy it is for me? No, because I have the ability to put myself into others' shoes.
I am very pro BFing, but I also acknowledge reality. I am glad to see someone from the BFing board that is also realistic. I was beginning to despair.
@everyone because it would take me too long to quote everyone. First of all, thank you for making me not feel guilty about the possible option of not getting to BF for a long period of time. I have told myself I will do it as long as I can but by no means am I going to put myself through misery if it doesn't make sense. I will have to go back to work after 6-8 weeks and I am terrified of that enough as it is. I work in TV advertising so I am in the office half the time and seeing clients the other half. The thought of me lugging around that pump machine for a significant amount of months is completely unrealistic in my world. I am going to do the best that I can for my little girl. Everyone else and all your judgment about what I decide and the length of time I do it can go F off. Seriously.
I never said it was easy. Once. My point was that all of this is really scary and I think along with the scary you need to mix in some positives, too. All some mothers get is negative in their personal lives and it might be nice for someone to occasionally read something positive. I had a hell of a time breastfeeding, from low supply in the beginning where my son lost over a pound and was jaundice, literally sitting in my bosses office with my breast in a bowl of ice water trying to draw my nipple out with my son screaming next to me, to mastitis three times, to losing my pump cords at a tournament in Stockton and trying to find a replacement at midnight because I hadn't pumped in over 7 hours. But it was also really awesome to be able to breastfeed for as long as I could and be comfortable with it 90% of the time. Because all of those bad experiences are really a small representative of my actual time spent breastfeeding. There are bad parts but great parts, too. Definitely pros and cons but all I kept seeing in this post was a bunch of a cons.
And @etoille yes, I get it. You don't like me. You've made this very clear many times. Pulling up posts from 3.5 months ago when I was two months out of college clearly proves your point. Because I haven't mentioned on here several times that I accepted a new position in August that has moved me hundreds of miles away from civilization, working full time, and being kind of stressed about my job. Very convenient that you missed seeing those posts. But I'm not worried, I'm sure you'll find a post from three years ago that discredits this post.
B born 7/15/13, C born 3/2/15, #3 on the way May '17
I’m a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I’ve been up linked and downloaded, I’ve been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I’m a high-tech low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! I’m new wave, but I’m old school and my inner child is outward bound. I’m a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my database is in cyberspace, so I’m interactive, I’m hyperactive and from time to time I’m radioactive.
Not to play devils advocate or anything but I'm fully expecting a difficult time breastfeeding because I think I've heard negative experiences 10 fold over positive ones. It doesn't seem so "natural" to me because everyone makes it sound so difficult. In one way I'm glad cause I'm able to mentally prepare myself if it doesn't go the way I hope but I also don't have high hopes about it which sucks.
I am NOT blaming anyone but I think JC has a point about negative stories overbearing positive ones. It's only my observation and not just from this board or TB. This is just coming from a FTM who has no idea what I'm in for and only has other people's stories to go by.
@janda426 I can see your point, too. I think getting a full spectrum of experiences is important.
Even with regard to weaning, my sisters had very different experiences. I know this hasn't been touched on a lot (at least I haven't noticed), but one of my sisters had very emotional experiences weaning her kids from BF'ing; she cried for days. My other sister stated she just stopped one night after 18 months. She was over it and said, "I know everyone is different, but for me... I was done having someone attached to my tit after 18 months (with an affectionate smirk)."
I could see both perspectives and I'm glad I had the opportunity to hear them.
I'm practically begging my 2 year old to wean. I was never able to bf my first and felt tremendous shame over it, even though I pumped what I could. I was determined the next time around and succeeded even after a 3 week nicu stay. I was petrified he'd self wean before 18 months. And here we are at almost 26 months and thankfully down to maybe once every couple of days. Weaning has been the hardest part to be honest. Both my experiences have greatly changed how I'm planning this next baby.
I just think it's hilarious that women in general here are being treated like delicate mindless flowers by 'certain people' (see? I can be passive aggressive and pretend you aren't here like a child too. Isn't it fun?).
For the love of god, we're almost all pregnant here. Obviously we aren't delicate little sissies who don't want to attempt something physically difficult, painful, and uncomfortable. Obviously we would NEVER put aside our own comfort and obviously we'll all faint and/or run away from birth if we read about it's realities.
Good thing nobody gives us credit for facing potential hardships with courage and grace. Better not tell women that birth fucking hurts or none of those mindless little strumpets will get pregnant. Golly gee. Just pet them like lap dogs and keep them from having information so they don't get all scurred.
There are, of course, positive stories, but honestly, in my FB group last time of 100 women, even a decent percentage of the ones who didn't struggle with supply or latch had some sort of issue, whether it be the challenge of pumping at work, or having a high needs baby who at a year and a half still wakes up to comfort suck for hours...there are so many DIFFERENT issues linked to BFing. So this isn't a scare tactic, it is fucking reality. Honestly, I saw more women struggle than have an easy time. The ones who had it easiest had a good supply, good latch right away, a baby who slept well, and were able to stay at home. That is a hard series of fortunate parts of the equation to hit.
The thing is, working does make it fucking hard. Really fucking hard. If you already have a supply issue on top of that, it can end your ability to BF or at least EBF. Not everyone has the luxury of an employment place or a job that is kind to pumping moms, even if the law says they have to be. As a teacher, it was nearly impossible for me to get my pumping breaks.
If our nation wants to make BFing a priority, LCs should be provided (my insurance didn't cover mine!!!) and most importantly, women should be able to stay home with their children for at least a year (HELLO all the other fucking developed nations caught onto this!!). Anyhow, @mangomimosa said that all very well and I don't need to repeat it.
I just wanted to say that the difficulties expressed here are reality. I don't think they misrepresent reality. Sure there are positive stories, but people who BF with complete ease, like 100%?? I'm guessing it is a SMALL percentage of the population. A friend of mine who had no supply issues and a baby that easily took to the breast and slept well ended up having to deal with all sorts of allergy problems. She had to change her diet drastically to find the source of the problem. Turns out she couldn't continue to feed him. He was allergic to all dairy, various nuts and wheat...
So, while my BFing experience is one of the unfortunate extremes, there are so many other struggles. BFing for a large percentage of the population is no fucking walk in the park and waking up FTMs to that reality is a good thing, not a bad thing. They will know they aren't alone if they do struggle and perhaps they will do more research and whatever they can to prepare for possible struggles. Just being mentally prepared for possible struggles is pretty important and might not happen if you continue on the "la la la it is what my body is made to do and I want to do it so it'll be easy" path.
I just think it's hilarious that women in general here are being treated like delicate mindless flowers by 'certain people' (see? I can be passive aggressive and pretend you aren't here like a child too. Isn't it fun?).
For the love of god, we're almost all pregnant here. Obviously we aren't delicate little sissies who don't want to attempt something physically difficult, painful, and uncomfortable. Obviously we would NEVER put aside our own comfort and obviously we'll all faint and/or run away from birth if we read about it's realities.
Good thing nobody gives us credit for facing potential hardships with courage and grace. Better not tell women that birth fucking hurts or none of those mindless little strumpets will get pregnant. Golly gee. Just pet them like lap dogs and keep them from having information so they don't get all scurred.
Please, what a fucking joke.
You can pet me, Pele.
Um no she can't. You're in quarantine for being a public health threat.
Truth fact I learned today from our garrison's information brief:
Army medicine will not be using the word "quarantine" in regards to the Ebola threat. I can't recall the term they are using, but quarantine is a no-go.
Maui doesn't have ebola though. She's just going to give her kid formula.
Hey maybe formula IS ebola!??
I mean, there has to be a reason why people villify it so much...
Formula=Ebola=Public Health concern.
****quote****
Oh it'll be cool, my mom only BFed me for two months, then switched to formula. So I'll be with Maui in quarantine, petting away.
This thread has actually been pretty informative. Thanks to those that have shared their stories and experiences.
I have a few questions! (Slight thread hijacking that kind of relates ...)
If using bottles to feed breast milk on occasion, would the 4 Oz or 8 Oz be used more often? Or does this really vary?
I have every intention to try to bf for the first year. But if I don't have success at this, did you guys bring your own bottles and formula to the hospital? And how in the world did you decide on a formula brand in the first place?
Now I forget who asked about 4oz vs 8oz and the quote trees make it so I can't go back.
My daughter never took more than 4 oz at a time until we switched to sippies at about a year and a couple of months. Now, at almost 19 months, she takes 4-6 oz of wcm at a time (or water if it isn't time for milk). But that is in a cup, not a bottle, so, 8 oz bottles never got used in this house.
Seriously though, I have to come back and give mad props to mamas who pumped. That shit is so hard. Maybe I had a shitty pump or maybe I just don't respond well to pumps, but I gave it up before I even made it back to work. I just wasn't getting enough for it to be worth it (maybe an ounce or two at a time). So I just nursed DS when I was with him, and when I wasn't, he got formula (what is that called? partial weaning? not really a BFing expert here). And while he may not really know the quadratic equation, I'd say that he turned out just fine.
Also, what the two ladies above said about comfort nursing and cluster feeding is what made BFing hard for me.
The formula debate is an interesting one. I'm a sucker for marketing. Our pediatrician (both of them) also agreed that all formula is pretty much equal, and yet I insisted on buying the more expensive Earth's Best organic once we started supplementing. I KNOW, in my brain, that it's sort of a silly waste of money, but for some reason it gave me peace of mind. I'm a marketing ad-whiz DREAM consumer. Sell me fear. I eat that ish up!
I have a feeling i will be the same. it helped seeing some forums where women were like "i bought the cheapest target generic formula and brought it to the hospital to feed from day one" but i'm sure i will be buying the sensitive concentrate to start out.
i'm planning on formula feeding and extremely aware of the benefits and pros to breast milk, so i started to look into the best types of milk for infants. apparently goats milk is generally better, but it's impossible to find goats milk based formulas that aren't more for toddlers to supplement a regular diet. some hardcore women make their own formulas from goats milk (which you usually have to locally source) and add vitamins and things themselves, but that's all way too intense for me.
Impressed. That's the first I've heard of DIY goat's milk formula. I can be pretty hardcore about DIY projects, food production, and the like but that sounds way, way out of my league.
****quote***
Some people sadly don't have a choice. My mother was forced to try all sorts of things when I was nursing because my stomach just couldn't handle ANYTHING. They finally found goat's milk worked for me, but was too expensive. Eventually they found a soy formula that didn't lead to major diarrhea. I bet that was basically a national holiday to them.
Re: Nursing VS bottle feeding TOO many opinions help!!
I am very pro BFing, but I also acknowledge reality. I am glad to see someone from the BFing board that is also realistic. I was beginning to despair.
B born 7/15/13, C born 3/2/15, #3 on the way May '17
I’m a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I’ve been up linked and downloaded, I’ve been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I’m a high-tech low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! I’m new wave, but I’m old school and my inner child is outward bound. I’m a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my database is in cyberspace, so I’m interactive, I’m hyperactive and from time to time I’m radioactive.
I am NOT blaming anyone but I think JC has a point about negative stories overbearing positive ones. It's only my observation and not just from this board or TB. This is just coming from a FTM who has no idea what I'm in for and only has other people's stories to go by.
I'm practically begging my 2 year old to wean. I was never able to bf my first and felt tremendous shame over it, even though I pumped what I could. I was determined the next time around and succeeded even after a 3 week nicu stay. I was petrified he'd self wean before 18 months. And here we are at almost 26 months and thankfully down to maybe once every couple of days. Weaning has been the hardest part to be honest. Both my experiences have greatly changed how I'm planning this next baby.
For the love of god, we're almost all pregnant here. Obviously we aren't delicate little sissies who don't want to attempt something physically difficult, painful, and uncomfortable. Obviously we would NEVER put aside our own comfort and obviously we'll all faint and/or run away from birth if we read about it's realities.
Good thing nobody gives us credit for facing potential hardships with courage and grace. Better not tell women that birth fucking hurts or none of those mindless little strumpets will get pregnant. Golly gee. Just pet them like lap dogs and keep them from having information so they don't get all scurred.
Please, what a fucking joke.
There are, of course, positive stories, but honestly, in my FB group last time of 100 women, even a decent percentage of the ones who didn't struggle with supply or latch had some sort of issue, whether it be the challenge of pumping at work, or having a high needs baby who at a year and a half still wakes up to comfort suck for hours...there are so many DIFFERENT issues linked to BFing. So this isn't a scare tactic, it is fucking reality. Honestly, I saw more women struggle than have an easy time. The ones who had it easiest had a good supply, good latch right away, a baby who slept well, and were able to stay at home. That is a hard series of fortunate parts of the equation to hit.
The thing is, working does make it fucking hard. Really fucking hard. If you already have a supply issue on top of that, it can end your ability to BF or at least EBF. Not everyone has the luxury of an employment place or a job that is kind to pumping moms, even if the law says they have to be. As a teacher, it was nearly impossible for me to get my pumping breaks.
If our nation wants to make BFing a priority, LCs should be provided (my insurance didn't cover mine!!!) and most importantly, women should be able to stay home with their children for at least a year (HELLO all the other fucking developed nations caught onto this!!). Anyhow, @mangomimosa said that all very well and I don't need to repeat it.
I just wanted to say that the difficulties expressed here are reality. I don't think they misrepresent reality. Sure there are positive stories, but people who BF with complete ease, like 100%?? I'm guessing it is a SMALL percentage of the population. A friend of mine who had no supply issues and a baby that easily took to the breast and slept well ended up having to deal with all sorts of allergy problems. She had to change her diet drastically to find the source of the problem. Turns out she couldn't continue to feed him. He was allergic to all dairy, various nuts and wheat...
So, while my BFing experience is one of the unfortunate extremes, there are so many other struggles. BFing for a large percentage of the population is no fucking walk in the park and waking up FTMs to that reality is a good thing, not a bad thing. They will know they aren't alone if they do struggle and perhaps they will do more research and whatever they can to prepare for possible struggles. Just being mentally prepared for possible struggles is pretty important and might not happen if you continue on the "la la la it is what my body is made to do and I want to do it so it'll be easy" path.
Army medicine will not be using the word "quarantine" in regards to the Ebola threat. I can't recall the term they are using, but quarantine is a no-go.
Maui doesn't have ebola though. She's just going to give her kid formula.
I mean, there has to be a reason why people villify it so much...
Formula=Ebola=Public Health concern.
****quote****
Oh it'll be cool, my mom only BFed me for two months, then switched to formula. So I'll be with Maui in quarantine, petting away.
Quarantine petting party!!
I have a few questions! (Slight thread hijacking that kind of relates ...)
If using bottles to feed breast milk on occasion, would the 4 Oz or 8 Oz be used more often? Or does this really vary?
I have every intention to try to bf for the first year. But if I don't have success at this, did you guys bring your own bottles and formula to the hospital? And how in the world did you decide on a formula brand in the first place?
My daughter never took more than 4 oz at a time until we switched to sippies at about a year and a couple of months. Now, at almost 19 months, she takes 4-6 oz of wcm at a time (or water if it isn't time for milk). But that is in a cup, not a bottle, so, 8 oz bottles never got used in this house.
All babies are different!
For SuzyQ and all March 15 loss moms
Also, what the two ladies above said about comfort nursing and cluster feeding is what made BFing hard for me.
For SuzyQ and all March 15 loss moms
****quote***
Some people sadly don't have a choice. My mother was forced to try all sorts of things when I was nursing because my stomach just couldn't handle ANYTHING. They finally found goat's milk worked for me, but was too expensive. Eventually they found a soy formula that didn't lead to major diarrhea. I bet that was basically a national holiday to them.