Your H is ready to put the poor dog down? I mean I get that the safety of your kids is number one priority but I think it's extreme. If you don't have the time and ability to supervise and train the kids and dog, then it's best to find the dog a new home. Dogs needs training and more importantly kids need to be trained as well and consistency is the key. So it cannot be a one time correction to DD about giving the dog space but something that is followed through every single time even by the nanny in your absence.
Also was it really a bite bite or the dog trying to show displeasure about something? I am no dog expert but my dog used to kind of nip or hold my hand like a bite occasionally to direct me or stop me from doing something. It's was an accepted gester and it never really hurt me.
I can't believe your husband would consider putting your dog down over something like that. A dog is a member of the family. I have two dogs and one of them is mildly aggressive toward DD every once in awhile when she feels cornered and we're just trying to teach DD how to interact with her.
BFP #1 9/2010 (lost our baby at 21 weeks)
BFP #2 8/2011 (ectopic pregnancy)
BFP #3 10/2011 (chemical pregnancy)
BFP #4 12/2011 (Abigail born 8/15/12)
BFP #5 5/2013 (Griffin born 1/23/14 with heart defects, now repaired!)
I understand a bit of what you're feeling. I posted a few weeks ago that one of my dogs bit my MIL. (Her dog attacked mine. Then MIL got in the middle of the dog fight. WTF). We were super upset, and at first wondered if we'd be able to keep him, briefly talked about giving him to my parents, etc. it was surprise and panic. When we calmed down we looked at the situation again, and we're able to realize our dog isn't a danger to the baby. Of course we keep a very close eye on them, never leave baby and dog alone together, etc.
I hope that you're able to take a few days to decide what to do, rather than make an emotional decision. I really hate to think of a good dog being put down, and really hope that at the very least you can find it a new good home. Perhaps when the emotions have cleared your husband will be able to look at things differently.
I'm honestly sick to my stomach that putting the dog down is even an option on the table. Based on what you said, it sounds like your pup reached a breaking point. We do that too. Ever felt overwhelmed and said something harsh? No difference. If he has been being manhandeled by the nanny's kids without a human intervention he probably just feels like he needs to take matters into his own hands, er paws.
I agree with PP that if he has wanted to hurt DD he would have. He didnt so it was his way of communicating with you. I would start by setting some boundaries with your nanny. If those aren't met, Id be letting her go. Then work on Helping DD recognize his signs.
Ok the more I think about this the more mad it is making me. I mean it's not about culture. It is about compassion and love for your pet and I think you need to say that aloud and clear to your H. My cousins have a dog that is not allowed in the house due to religious beliefs however the dog has his own kennel which is well kept, the dog is trained and the kids are allowed regular playtime which is always supervised. None of the kids are allowed outside to play with the dog after dark because the dog is trained to be a watch dog and to protect their estate at night.
My point being, if H feels the dog is not a part of the family that way and has a purpose then for god sake let him just do that and don't confuse the poor animal by allowing kids to be around him and interact. If at all that's not the case then he has to accept the fact that he will need to supervise interactions, train train and retrain the kids ( including the nannys) on interaction, and occasionally expect a mild change in behavior due to being provoked differently. He is a dog and not a machine so he cannot expect the same output out if the poor animal every single time no matter what!!
At the end of the day if you are not willing to commit to the animal then please please do find him another home or else this is just another accident waiting to happen.
This sounds to me like more of a case of poorly trained people than poorly trained dog, namely the nanny and her kids. Just because they weren't there that day doesn't mean it's not related. If they've been manhandling and annoying the dog for awhile, the dog may start to view every small human as an irritant, including your DD.
You need to set some clear rules regarding kids and dog IMMEDIATELY, and the nanny needs to understand that this is very important and a matter of safety. If the kids can't play nice, then the dog needs to be kept in a separate area while they're there. Period. And really, I'm not sure I'd trust them to be the judge of what "playing nice" is...if the dog bites one of them, welcome to a lawsuit. Just separate them.
It may take your dog a little while to regain trust for kids. You're going to have to supervise all interaction with your kids closely (which I'm sure you're going to do anyway). This is not the dog's fault...it's partly yours for not speaking up when you saw the nanny's kids messing with him (sorry, but harsh truth) and partly the nanny's for not wrangling her kids. The dog is just doing what dogs do.
I'm honestly sick to my stomach that putting the dog down is even an option on the table. Based on what you said, it sounds like your pup reached a breaking point. We do that too. Ever felt overwhelmed and said something harsh? No difference. If he has been being manhandeled by the nanny's kids without a human intervention he probably just feels like he needs to take matters into his own hands, er paws.
I agree with PP that if he has wanted to hurt DD he would have. He didnt so it was his way of communicating with you. I would start by setting some boundaries with your nanny. If those aren't met, Id be letting her go. Then work on Helping DD recognize his signs.
I'd definitely be setting boundaries with the nanny - if she is going to bring her children into your dogs home then they need to respect that it's the dogs space. If she is unwilling to make her children accept the boundaries then she shouldn't be in your dogs house.
The snap/nip of your daughter was exactly that, a nip. It was your dogs way of asserting her own boundaries.
A pet is part of the family, and it has recently been subjected to a big upheaval with the arrival of LO. Would you get rid of any other member of your family for snapping?
I really don't have time for this right now (busy day ahead).
If your dog has food agression issues, children shouldn't feed her treats. Never meals and NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER treats, which are more high value.
Wth to the yelling and dragging the dog. I'd fire a nanny who allowed my dog to be abused that way, especially since those kids are old enough to know better. My four year old gets in major trouble for that shit. Six and seven? Holy fuck that's horrible.
And stop with the pack nonsense. Do you follow caser Milan's dominance theory?
It's wrong and dangerous.
There's a book called "mine". It's about resource guarding.
You were supervising but this is a case of a bite being the adult's fault. Tell your H that it was your fault and the dog shouldn't die. It isn't something to feel super guilty about, but of course your dog nipped. She's always been food possessive and now kids are abusing her and pushing her around? Then she gets a high value treat and a kid sits on top of her and then an adult moves toward her and her thought is "ENOUGH!! This is MINE!"
I bet she showed signs of agitation and that's why you moved forwards, even if you didn't know it. Teach your kid about whale eye and don't let your kid feed the dog treats.
Oh and as far as the ag background... Most old farmers I know would say you sit on top of a dog who has a treat and you are asking to get bit. They'd see it as a practical lesson.
@MissDemeanor - Thank you. Your response is so helpful. I really appreciate it.
@CiaoMama - Thank you. That is what we do. We will keep doing it.
@RondackHiker- I appreciate the book recommendation. I have read several books, one being Ceasar Millan. I agree that this was my fault. I have made that clear. DD1 was not "on top of the dog." Obviously she was too close, but she was not close enough to touch the dog.
As for the nannys kids, as I have already said. I am planning to talk to her.
I feel like maybe some of you are only reading some of my words, and not all of it as a whole.
You might be right on this one (with me at least). I'm kind of stuck on the fact that putting your dog down was/is even an option in this situation. It's hard for me to see past this and it makes me really sad.
@WildFlower26 - I think I can understand to where your H is coming from a bit. My H also comes from an ag background and he also has a very hard time seeing dogs (especially large dogs) as being pets instead of farm animals. I grew up with dogs living in the home as pets. Dogs were never allowed in the home for him. He had also said that if any dog ever bites LO the dog will be put down. I pray that this never even becomes an issue.
Anyway, I hope you can help your H to see a different side of things (as I try to do with my H). Good luck, both to you and to your dog!
@MissDemeanor - Thank you. Your response is so helpful. I really appreciate it.
@CiaoMama - Thank you. That is what we do. We will keep doing it.
@RondackHiker- I appreciate the book recommendation. I have read several books, one being Ceasar Millan. I agree that this was my fault. I have made that clear. DD1 was not "on top of the dog." Obviously she was too close, but she was not close enough to touch the dog.
As for the nannys kids, as I have already said. I am planning to talk to her.
I feel like maybe some of you are only reading some of my words, and not all of it as a whole.
You might be right on this one (with me at least). I'm kind of stuck on the fact that putting your dog down was/is even an option in this situation. It's hard for me to see past this and it makes me really sad.
I appreciate that. Thank you. That is just the thing I do not want it to be an option. I am working on trying to put together an alternative plan.
I know for sure you all have/do ocassionally disagree with your SO on major issues. Nothing you all say is going to change his long formed opinions about the appropriate role of our pets. But if I have a constructive action plan in place, I may be able to.
ETA @breadpudding - I just realized you are JA#s. If anyone can relate to complicated issues with your SO, I would imagine it is you.
I see your point. Honestly, I do. My heart hurts for you in this situation because I can relate. Having a stubborn SO is hard. Especially so if we are just as stubborn as they are. No one wants to budge in either direction and it makes things complicated. I hope you can present your DH with the reasons why your dog shouldn't be put down, along with ideas for preventative measures that can be taken instead. I'm sorry.
@MissDemeanor - Thank you. Your response is so helpful. I really appreciate it.
@CiaoMama - Thank you. That is what we do. We will keep doing it.
@RondackHiker- I appreciate the book recommendation. I have read several books, one being Ceasar Millan. I agree that this was my fault. I have made that clear. DD1 was not "on top of the dog." Obviously she was too close, but she was not close enough to touch the dog.
As for the nannys kids, as I have already said. I am planning to talk to her.
I feel like maybe some of you are only reading some of my words, and not all of it as a whole.
She was a foot away. That's on top of the dog who is food aggressive and has a special treat.
A major part of the issue is Caser Milan. Using those techniques will make the dog worse. That and letting a child feed a treat to a food aggressive dog made an incident a guarantee. I'm glad it wasn't worse.
The dog showed massive self control. He didn't break the skin. It's really easy to accidentally scratch with a cannine and he didn't. This wasn't a bite. This was a dog asking for more space and giving a warning.
It truly upsets me that euthanasia is even considered. I know it's your husband saying that, not you, but it baffles me. It is such an out there response. I was completely serious when I said that the farmers I know would've said ignoring an animals' body language, especially after what he's been through, is asking for trouble. A warning nip with cause isn't reason to euthanize. A true bite with little cause? Yeah, they'd do it. But that's not what this was.
I'm glad you'll talk to you nanny. I'd personally have done it when I saw the dog being abused, but I hope you make it clear it stops immediately. It is abuse, even from a child. If an adult did that you'd be pissed. It feels the same to the dog, no matter who does it.
Oh and I'm far from some soft dog lover who wants to rescue all the pups and never euthanize.
I've euthanized animals for behavior issues before. I've advised multiple bumpies that euthanasia was the kindest thing they could do for their stressed and frightened pet with no health issues but major behavior ones.
But in this case? It seems far more like he's trying to punish the dog for nipping his baby and refusing to see his role.
Sort of. H has agreed to a temporary trial period. I feel like in the meantime our pups behavior has gotten worse and the situation seems to be deteriorating. I spoke with the nanny today and she was completely unwilling to take any responsibility. Two minutes after I talked to her, I had to ask one of her kids to please go inside as I was feeding the dog. ( I am having other problems aside from this with the nanny, but it isn't as easy as just fire the nanny.) I am still really frustrated and worried, but doing my best.
Your nanny refuses to take responsibility? What does that mean? Do you mean you told her about the bite and she denied responsibility? Because that's just common sense. She wasn't there. She's not going to say it was her fault and be fired or sued.
Or did she say she wouldn't or couldn't stop her kids from abusing the dog? Because in that case, time for a new nanny. I'm not perfect and so don't expect perfection, but if someone came into my home and let their kids abuse my dog, that person wouldn't come back. You can lock the dog in a room while she's over until you have a replacement, so that the kids can't get to him.
What do you mean his behavior is deteriorating? What is he doing? Sounds like he needs a full check up from the vet. Make sure you and your h are treating him well in the meantime.
I agree with @RondackHiker. And I keep thinking about this situation.
I understand getting a new nanny and the stresses involved in firing/getting a new one....but, is that really less easy than euthanizing (or even discussing) your dog? Who's been a part of your family? Who didn't even break skin? Especially when you're saying there's been some other issues with the nanny?
I would also worry that if that's how the kids treat the dog, how do they treat your kids? your house? your belongings?
My sort of gut instinct thought, when i read that his behaviour was deteriorating, is that he is sensing the tense/stressful atmosphere. Between the kids/nanny, your H, and I imagine you're probably stressed and worried around him too.
Or it's possible you're noticing/looking for things previously missed due to these recent events?
I can't stop thinking about this nanny. If she blows off your concerns about an issue that risks her own children, then will she listen to your concerns about your own children?
I doubt very seriously it's your family that's stressing the dog out. I'm pretty sure it's the nanny's kids. I agree with PP, she needs to take responsibility for her own kids, and if she own't even acknowledge that they're strseeing your dog out, then she doesn't need to be watching your LO. Perhaps your dog is standing up for itself because no one else will.
I also agree you need to take the dog to see a vet. There could be an underlying issue.
I agree with all of this, except I call yelling and yanking a dog around by the collar abuse. Yanking the dog around can damage their neck, especially if they're small or older. Imagine having your neck yanked on!
Please have a vet check the dog out as well as making sure the dog does not need to be around the nanny and kids. I'd lock him in your bedroom with water and toys and a fan and let him have a relaxing day.
In a not so shocking turn of events the nanny quit. So there is that.
I'm sorry she put you in a lurch, but I think it's for the best. Her kids were going to cause you to lose your dog one way or another, plus I don't think she was all too concerned about the comfort of your kids. You'll find someone awesome.
It sounds like you are feeling all the feels...exhausted, overwhelmed, etc. I just want to give you a big hug. I'm glad you're feeling better about the situation.
Sounds like a win to me....a pain that you have to find a new nanny, but now you can get one who actually listens to your needs, has a responsible attitude to the kids and dog, and you get to keep the family pet Plus, I'd be mentioning that to your mum about being stuck with an unreliable nanny at her insistence if she was ever super annoying me
Reading that the nanny quit was the best thing i've read in this entire thread.
I know it might put you in a spot.
For what it's worth, to anyone, not just you - just because the nanny (or anyone that you're paying to provide a service) is family, it doesn't make you obligated to make it work when she's blatantly ignoring your requests and disrespecting your wishes.
Being related isn't a free pass. If anything they should respect your wishes that much more.
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Re: Dog Bite Help
Also was it really a bite bite or the dog trying to show displeasure about something? I am no dog expert but my dog used to kind of nip or hold my hand like a bite occasionally to direct me or stop me from doing something. It's was an accepted gester and it never really hurt me.
I agree with PP that if he has wanted to hurt DD he would have. He didnt so it was his way of communicating with you. I would start by setting some boundaries with your nanny. If those aren't met, Id be letting her go. Then work on Helping DD recognize his signs.
My point being, if H feels the dog is not a part of the family that way and has a purpose then for god sake let him just do that and don't confuse the poor animal by allowing kids to be around him and interact. If at all that's not the case then he has to accept the fact that he will need to supervise interactions, train train and retrain the kids ( including the nannys) on interaction, and occasionally expect a mild change in behavior due to being provoked differently. He is a dog and not a machine so he cannot expect the same output out if the poor animal every single time no matter what!!
At the end of the day if you are not willing to commit to the animal then please please do find him another home or else this is just another accident waiting to happen.
You need to set some clear rules regarding kids and dog IMMEDIATELY, and the nanny needs to understand that this is very important and a matter of safety. If the kids can't play nice, then the dog needs to be kept in a separate area while they're there. Period. And really, I'm not sure I'd trust them to be the judge of what "playing nice" is...if the dog bites one of them, welcome to a lawsuit. Just separate them.
It may take your dog a little while to regain trust for kids. You're going to have to supervise all interaction with your kids closely (which I'm sure you're going to do anyway). This is not the dog's fault...it's partly yours for not speaking up when you saw the nanny's kids messing with him (sorry, but harsh truth) and partly the nanny's for not wrangling her kids. The dog is just doing what dogs do.
The snap/nip of your daughter was exactly that, a nip. It was your dogs way of asserting her own boundaries.
A pet is part of the family, and it has recently been subjected to a big upheaval with the arrival of LO. Would you get rid of any other member of your family for snapping?
If your dog has food agression issues, children shouldn't feed her treats. Never meals and NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER treats, which are more high value.
Wth to the yelling and dragging the dog. I'd fire a nanny who allowed my dog to be abused that way, especially since those kids are old enough to know better. My four year old gets in major trouble for that shit. Six and seven? Holy fuck that's horrible.
And stop with the pack nonsense. Do you follow caser Milan's dominance theory?
It's wrong and dangerous.
There's a book called "mine". It's about resource guarding.
You were supervising but this is a case of a bite being the adult's fault. Tell your H that it was your fault and the dog shouldn't die. It isn't something to feel super guilty about, but of course your dog nipped. She's always been food possessive and now kids are abusing her and pushing her around? Then she gets a high value treat and a kid sits on top of her and then an adult moves toward her and her thought is "ENOUGH!! This is MINE!"
I bet she showed signs of agitation and that's why you moved forwards, even if you didn't know it. Teach your kid about whale eye and don't let your kid feed the dog treats.
I really have to go. PM me or I'll post later.
I grew up with dogs living in the home as pets.
Dogs were never allowed in the home for him. He had also said that if any dog ever bites LO the dog will be put down. I pray that this never even becomes an issue.
Anyway, I hope you can help your H to see a different side of things (as I try to do with my H). Good luck, both to you and to your dog!
A major part of the issue is Caser Milan. Using those techniques will make the dog worse. That and letting a child feed a treat to a food aggressive dog made an incident a guarantee. I'm glad it wasn't worse.
The dog showed massive self control. He didn't break the skin. It's really easy to accidentally scratch with a cannine and he didn't. This wasn't a bite. This was a dog asking for more space and giving a warning.
It truly upsets me that euthanasia is even considered. I know it's your husband saying that, not you, but it baffles me. It is such an out there response. I was completely serious when I said that the farmers I know would've said ignoring an animals' body language, especially after what he's been through, is asking for trouble. A warning nip with cause isn't reason to euthanize. A true bite with little cause? Yeah, they'd do it. But that's not what this was.
I'm glad you'll talk to you nanny. I'd personally have done it when I saw the dog being abused, but I hope you make it clear it stops immediately. It is abuse, even from a child. If an adult did that you'd be pissed. It feels the same to the dog, no matter who does it.
I've euthanized animals for behavior issues before. I've advised multiple bumpies that euthanasia was the kindest thing they could do for their stressed and frightened pet with no health issues but major behavior ones.
But in this case? It seems far more like he's trying to punish the dog for nipping his baby and refusing to see his role.
Or did she say she wouldn't or couldn't stop her kids from abusing the dog? Because in that case, time for a new nanny. I'm not perfect and so don't expect perfection, but if someone came into my home and let their kids abuse my dog, that person wouldn't come back. You can lock the dog in a room while she's over until you have a replacement, so that the kids can't get to him.
What do you mean his behavior is deteriorating? What is he doing? Sounds like he needs a full check up from the vet. Make sure you and your h are treating him well in the meantime.
If you won't do it for the dog , fire her for the sake of your wallet.
I understand getting a new nanny and the stresses involved in firing/getting a new one....but, is that really less easy than euthanizing (or even discussing) your dog? Who's been a part of your family? Who didn't even break skin? Especially when you're saying there's been some other issues with the nanny?
I would also worry that if that's how the kids treat the dog, how do they treat your kids? your house? your belongings?
Or it's possible you're noticing/looking for things previously missed due to these recent events?
Her response here raises major red flags.
Please have a vet check the dog out as well as making sure the dog does not need to be around the nanny and kids. I'd lock him in your bedroom with water and toys and a fan and let him have a relaxing day.
I know this is a bittersweet thing. Hang in there.
ETA ((hugs))
Plus, I'd be mentioning that to your mum about being stuck with an unreliable nanny at her insistence if she was ever super annoying me
I know it might put you in a spot.
For what it's worth, to anyone, not just you - just because the nanny (or anyone that you're paying to provide a service) is family, it doesn't make you obligated to make it work when she's blatantly ignoring your requests and disrespecting your wishes.
Being related isn't a free pass. If anything they should respect your wishes that much more.