Breastfeeding

~*~*MSPI Moms Weekly Check-In*~*~ 07/07

~*~*MSPI Moms Weekly Check-In*~*~

Welcome! This is a check-in for moms who are/were on a dairy free and/or soy free diet due to their LO's intolerance. The check-ins will be posted every Monday on the Breastfeeding board and XP'd to the Food Allergy board. If you'd like to join the group, just post an intro here and dive in! To check out the archive of our previous check-ins, please see the MSPI Moms Blog (www.mspimoms.blogspot.com).

1. How are you doing? How is your LO doing?

2. Any other burning questions you'd like answered or experiences to share?

3. For US moms, how was your 4th of July? For moms outside the US, did you do anything fun over the weekend? Did your diet change(s) have any impact?

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Re: ~*~*MSPI Moms Weekly Check-In*~*~ 07/07

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  • RingOfFire11RingOfFire11 member
    edited July 2014

    casey78  - I'm happy to take it on. The check in has been so helpful to me during this process. Happy early birthday to Leah! Fingers crossed that the allergies aren't severe. Hope you get good news to report back.

    amichelle723  - That's really encouraging to hear that the mucous stopped with solids. I hope that's the case for us too. So far, they have gotten a little grittier, if that makes sense. I hope you and your DD feel better soon!

    Susiepoo04  - Welcome! Figuring out the foods you can/can't have is the hard part but the diet will get easier. I felt hungry at first too and then I found alternatives to most things I was eating. Ask as many questions as you need during this transition. This website is a good one and mentioned often here: https://www.mspimama.com/

    I don't have any experience with supplementing but the 2 options you mentioned were the ones that my pedi recommended, if we needed to. The ladies here are great and may have some feedback about this.


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  • 1. How are you doing? How is your LO doing? We are both doing good. No blood so that's a successful week in our house. Diapers are still mucousy (as usual) but things seem pretty smooth.

    2. Any other burning questions you'd like answered or experiences to share? We are on day 3 of starting solids - I pureed some bananas. She's not really loving them but her faces crack me up, lol. Good news....no reaction so far. As anxious as I am to give her food directly, I'm actually kind of excited because it will confirm all the foods that I CAN eat. Woot! ;)

    3. For US moms, how was your 4th of July? For moms outside the US, did you do anything fun over the weekend? Did your diet change(s) have any impact? We had a really nice 4th. DD2 is only 5m so we skipped fireworks but had a great time as a family at home outside. We made turkey sliders, had watermelon and I ate kettle chips. Someone posted last week that these were safe (ingredients: potatoes, canola oil and salt) and I thank you! I felt like I was eating regular picnic food. So fun!

    Yay, for no blood in stool, I know how it feels!! :)  Mmmm bananas!  I just added them back in recently to my diet!  :)  AND YAY!!  You liked the Kettle brand chips I posted!!  I eat WAY too many of them!! :) 



    1. How are you doing? How is your LO doing? New to this board...Just diagnosed with mspi yesterday so the adventure begins! Lo is breastfed + supplement. He tried nutramigen last night for supplementation and hated it! Only ate 2oz all night. Hoping the alimentum goes down better? Stool this morning was more liquidy than usual but no visible blood streaks 2. Any other burning questions you'd like answered or experiences to share? Just looking for support and learning from everyone here. Trying to figure out what foods I like that I can eat. Feeling hungry all the time now! What supplement have people used that worked well? 3. For US moms, how was your 4th of July? For moms outside the US, did you do anything fun over the weekend? Did your diet change(s) have any impact? 4th was good. I got rained on the latter part of the night!
    Welcome Suziepoo04...  Hang in there!!  I was a long road for me!   Just eliminating the top allergens didn't work for me, so I had to go on a total elimination diet and only eat turkey, rice, acorn squash, pears, and sweet potatoes for a week before I could start adding back in, but since I've been able to add in a food every 4 days, and have found out that oats and avocado hurt his tummy!  So worth it to not have bloody diapers!!  I don't have any experience with supplementing, sorry!  Anyway, good luck!! 
  • 1. How are you doing? How is your LO doing?  We are 31 days without any blood in his diaper!  So YAY!!  The oats that I added in last week seemed to bother his tummy...no blood, just a little fussier than normal!  So those are back out!  I did add in cooked carrots and blueberries!  Im on day 3 since adding them and so far so good!  Adding in sunflower seeds soon I hope!  and lettuce in on my list soon too!

    2. Any other burning questions you'd like answered or experiences to share?  Anyone have an issue with sunflower seeds?

    3. For US moms, how was your 4th of July? For moms outside the US, did you do anything fun over the weekend? Did your diet change(s) have any impact?  Went to the Country Club for fireworks and was not even tempted by the buffet that the rest of my family was eating!!  Doing it for our babies gives us Mama's super powers!! :)

  • @Susiepoo04‌ Welcome! you might try the Food Allergy board for more formula advice if you haven't already.
  • 1. How are you doing? How is your LO doing?

    We're doing really great this week.  No more mucus diapers!  They lasted about 3 days after the peanut butter.  So we'll see - could've been a virus but I'm thinking peanuts are a no for us. 

    2. Any other burning questions you'd like answered or experiences to share?

    Not this week...

    3. For US moms, how was your 4th of July? For moms outside the US, did you do anything fun over the weekend? Did your diet change(s) have any impact?

    It was a nice 4th!  We let DS (3.5)  stay up late and do his first at-home fireworks, just sparklers, etc.  He had a blast.  I was sad not to be able to partake in his first smores by the campfire experience that night, but am happy to have found safe cookout options - hot dogs, homemade burgers, Trader Joes buns, etc. so I felt like I ate like a normal person with the rest of the family.

    TTC #1 4/09-3/10, dx PCOS, 5th round clomid BFP 3/27/10, Nolan Lee, 11/13/10, PROM 36 weeks
    TTC #2 6/12-3/13, natural BFP 3/24/13, TWINS
    MC first twin at 11weeks, MC/preterm labor second twin, DD at 15weeks, 6/7/13
    BFP 9/21/13, EDD 6/5/13!!  It's a GIRL

    SHE'S HERE!  Scarlett Christine, 5/19/14

      

     image 

     

  • @camedowncrushing - thanks for the MSPI food list!!!

    1. We are hanging in there. I realized after a week of supposedly doing MSPI diet that the bagels I've been eating carefree have soy in them. I feel like such an idiot for not realizing that bread products contain soy and not checking the labels! I'm now reading every label before eating anything. Unfortunately i am on day #2 of having a bad headache from bit eating enough. My DD is almost 7 weeks old and i have to hold her all day (even while sleeping if i want her to stay down for more than 20 min naps) and she HATES all 4 carriers I've tried on her, so it's really hard for me to get non-MSPI food in since most of what I've been doing to date is snacking (on foods that are easy to open/eat with 1 hand but are not MSPI friendly). DD still has mucousy diapers but pedi tested her diaper yesterday and no traces of blood, which is great. (We've only had little flecks of blood on 2 occasions about 1.5-2 weeks ago which started this whole trial.) Pedi said while mucous diapers isn't great, she'd be more concerned with blood. She did say though that if I can't fix the mucous and her bad gas pains with my diet over thr next several weeks that they will recommend switching her to formula.

    2. On a lot of sites I've looked at related to MSPI I've seen that it is most likely safe to eat foods with soy lecithin and soy oil. Was that anyone's experience? I think if I have any chance of not starving to death I need to start out that way, at least for 1-2 weeks until I can hopefully get my hands free to actually prepare real food for myself to eat, once she's thru her growth spurt and hopefully sleeping a little better on her own.

    3. July 4th was basically nonexistent for me. Except for catching a 2 minute glimpse at Macy's fireworks show on mute on TV, it was just a regular day with a newborn. :) Oh well, there's always next year!
  • @giggler25, I'm a big snacker too.
    I'm sure others know more options than me, but for easy and snacking, I eat a lot of:

    -stacy's pita chips (my costco has huge bags now - they are addictive, good for safe hummus)
    -Trader Joe's herb popcorn (this is addictive!)
    -berries
    -almonds
    -lara bars
    -pretzels (dipped in peanut butter/almond butter if your LO is ok with nuts)
    -the little annies bunnies graham bunnies
    -the costo rotisserie chicken is safe (at leas at my costco) so I buy one a week and clean it and put it in the fridge for high-protein snacking and sandwiches.

    Look at the bread/bagels in the baker section at your grocery store.  You might have better luck.  I buy a local sourdough bread that's awesome and do toast and jelly/toast and almond butter for snacking too.

    Those are just a few ideas.  I avoid soy oil/lecithin. 

    Good Luck!

    oh I see @camedowncrushing has a link to a great list of safe foods above.  Thanks!

    TTC #1 4/09-3/10, dx PCOS, 5th round clomid BFP 3/27/10, Nolan Lee, 11/13/10, PROM 36 weeks
    TTC #2 6/12-3/13, natural BFP 3/24/13, TWINS
    MC first twin at 11weeks, MC/preterm labor second twin, DD at 15weeks, 6/7/13
    BFP 9/21/13, EDD 6/5/13!!  It's a GIRL

    SHE'S HERE!  Scarlett Christine, 5/19/14

      

     image 

     

  • Thanks @StinaLeigh!!  Super helpful!  Do you avoid soy oil/lecithin bc you know it affects your LO or just out of an abundance of caution?
  • This is my second trip down the MSPI road :( my first baby could not tolerate the oil or lecithin so I eliminated it for this baby too as a precaution as she seems more sensitive in general. It is easier for me to just eliminate all of it until we have a clean slate/healthy gut and then I can trial. Otherwise there is too much guesswork for me.

    TTC #1 4/09-3/10, dx PCOS, 5th round clomid BFP 3/27/10, Nolan Lee, 11/13/10, PROM 36 weeks
    TTC #2 6/12-3/13, natural BFP 3/24/13, TWINS
    MC first twin at 11weeks, MC/preterm labor second twin, DD at 15weeks, 6/7/13
    BFP 9/21/13, EDD 6/5/13!!  It's a GIRL

    SHE'S HERE!  Scarlett Christine, 5/19/14

      

     image 

     

  • amichelle723amichelle723 member
    edited July 2014
    @mamagreene We're ok with sunflower seeds. Hopefully your LO tolerates them, then you can have SunButter! It's a peanut butter substitute that I ate like crazy when I had cut out peanuts. It's definitely no peanut butter, but it satisfied my cravings for the time being.

    @giggler25 My DD is ok with soy oil and lecithin. I did not originally cut them out, but after ~3 months of no dairy, soy, peanuts, or tree nuts, I eliminated all traces of soy. DD improved around that time. About 2 months or so later I discovered that my "vegetable oil" I cook with was 100% soy oil. So I have since added back both with no problems. I have heard of some babies having a threshold, where they may be able to tolerate certain amounts of soy or dairy. I think that may be what happened with DD. A little soy oil here and there can really add up when you see what all it is in. So now I limit it when possible, but do allow some in my diet. Who really knows what finally caused improvement with DD, maybe she just outgrew some of her intolerances. The whole MSPI thing is a big guessing game. Good luck!

    Eta: I would also add that I personally wish I had just cut everything out from the get go, like @StinaLeigh said. I was following the recommendations of dairy only, then soy, then nuts, then soy oil and lecithin, and so forth. It took months to really get it straightened out. 
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  • @giggler25 I had to cut soy oil/lecithin bc my DS was super sensitive. Your situation does sound very challenging, though! So I think it is probably a good tactic to not cut that yet, so you can ensure you get enough calories to maintain your supply. My pedi and GE were also more concerned with blood than mucous. They will recommend formula but that doesn't mean you have to take their advice. It took me months to figure out everything I needed to cut for my DS, with mucousy poop and even occasional specks of blood, and ultimately now he is fine.
  • fyi I just updated the blog archive, I hadn't done so in about a month, sorry about that!
  • @giggler25   We are okay with soy oil and lecithin. 

    We got our RAST results back today, and everything was negative EXCEPT peanuts.  Ehhhh.  The nurse called to tell me the results so now I am waiting for the doctor to call me back.  The nurse said it was a moderate reaction.  I am not sure what that means exactly.
  • Looks like I was too optimistic -- pedi confirmed blood in DDs poop diaper today. :(
  • @amichelle723 - vegetable oil totally got me with my son too.  I never realized that vegetable oil is SOY oil. 

    @giggler25 - So sorry about the blood.  :(

    TTC #1 4/09-3/10, dx PCOS, 5th round clomid BFP 3/27/10, Nolan Lee, 11/13/10, PROM 36 weeks
    TTC #2 6/12-3/13, natural BFP 3/24/13, TWINS
    MC first twin at 11weeks, MC/preterm labor second twin, DD at 15weeks, 6/7/13
    BFP 9/21/13, EDD 6/5/13!!  It's a GIRL

    SHE'S HERE!  Scarlett Christine, 5/19/14

      

     image 

     

  • 1. I am doing better this week. I went to Whole Foods and found some things I could eat. DS has a respiratory infection but is in good spirits.
     2. DS appears to be allergic to rice cereal. He broke out in a rash. His pedi confirmed that it looked like an allergic reaction. Does anyone know if this means he is probably allergic to rice? We were using earths best rice cereal if that matters. 
    3. We went to a friends house for the fourth. I had lettuce wrapped hamburger and watermelon. It was okay. DS was scared by the fireworks and we left early. We took him to a baseball game on Saturday. He really liked it.
  • @giggler If you are having trouble finding breads without soy check out the arnold brand. They have products that have soy lecithin but no soy flour. I think the whole wheat bagel thins. Check to make sure. I also kept some deli meat (you have to check for dairy) around. I would eat a couple of pieces with baby carrots as a snack or have deli meat on safe bread. I think I told you already I ate a lot of guacamole and chips. They told me I may have to stop breastfeeding, now his doctors are asking me to keep going. Good luck to you!
  • giggler25 said:
    Looks like I was too optimistic -- pedi confirmed blood in DDs poop diaper today. :(
    I am sorry!
  • RingOfFire11RingOfFire11 member
    edited July 2014

    Salemkitty13  - Sorry to hear about the rash. I read that EB's rice cereal has vitamin E in it that is derived from sunflower oil. Maybe he has an issue with that?

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  • giggler25  - Sorry to hear about the blood. :(  I had to cut out soy oil and lecithin too. It took us a while to figure out all the foods I can/can't eat and that's still a work in progress. Good luck!!

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  • Salemkitty13  - Sorry to hear about the rash. I read that EB's rice cereal has vitamin E in it that is derived from sunflower oil. Maybe he has an issue with that?

    Are you sure it's not derived from soy? I *think* I decided against EB because I couldn't verify the source of the vit E.
  • giggler25 said:
    @camedowncrushing - thanks for the MSPI food list!!! 1. We are hanging in there. I realized after a week of supposedly doing MSPI diet that the bagels I've been eating carefree have soy in them. I feel like such an idiot for not realizing that bread products contain soy and not checking the labels! I'm now reading every label before eating anything. Unfortunately i am on day #2 of having a bad headache from bit eating enough. My DD is almost 7 weeks old and i have to hold her all day (even while sleeping if i want her to stay down for more than 20 min naps) and she HATES all 4 carriers I've tried on her, so it's really hard for me to get non-MSPI food in since most of what I've been doing to date is snacking (on foods that are easy to open/eat with 1 hand but are not MSPI friendly). DD still has mucousy diapers but pedi tested her diaper yesterday and no traces of blood, which is great. (We've only had little flecks of blood on 2 occasions about 1.5-2 weeks ago which started this whole trial.) Pedi said while mucous diapers isn't great, she'd be more concerned with blood. She did say though that if I can't fix the mucous and her bad gas pains with my diet over thr next several weeks that they will recommend switching her to formula. 2. On a lot of sites I've looked at related to MSPI I've seen that it is most likely safe to eat foods with soy lecithin and soy oil. Was that anyone's experience? I think if I have any chance of not starving to death I need to start out that way, at least for 1-2 weeks until I can hopefully get my hands free to actually prepare real food for myself to eat, once she's thru her growth spurt and hopefully sleeping a little better on her own. 3. July 4th was basically nonexistent for me. Except for catching a 2 minute glimpse at Macy's fireworks show on mute on TV, it was just a regular day with a newborn. :) Oh well, there's always next year!

    Sorry about the blood!! :(  But I've been doing a lot of research....and they say that even if we can't find the cause of what is causing our babies colitis that it is best for baby to continue to be breastfed!  I would not listen to a DR that tells you otherwise!  Dr. Newman, and international breastfeeding expert says that it causes no long term harm and the benefits way out weigh the short term blood in stool, he says that as long as they are growing, gaining and not anemic not to worry about it!  In addition breast mild actually helps heal colitis!  Here are a few links to check out

    https://www.bfmed.org/Media/Files/Protocols/Protocol24_English_120211.pdf

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15990624


    You can email DR Newman from this website, I actually received a personal email back from him about my son's bloody stools! https://www.nbci.ca/


    Good luck!!


  • Salemkitty13  - Sorry to hear about the rash. I read that EB's rice cereal has vitamin E in it that is derived from sunflower oil. Maybe he has an issue with that?

    Are you sure it's not derived from soy? I *think* I decided against EB because I couldn't verify the source of the vit E.
    No, I'm definitely not sure. I read a review where someone wrote them and was told it was derived from sunflower oil. I have not contacted them personally, so definitely not sure how reliable that is.

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  • @RingOfFire11‌ @rocknrollfriend‌ You ladies are so much better at this than I am! This might clear oats also. :) I guess I should ask if anyone gave their baby any cereal and if so what was it. He is anemic so I was trying for iron.
  • @Salemkitty13 It took me a while to remember which cereal I gave my DS. It was Healthy Times: https://www.healthytimes.com/htbabycereal.htm

    Which specifically claims to have no dairy or soy ingredients. He did fine with it. I used the brown rice cereal, which does have iron added. It looks like they also have barley and oatmeal with iron added, dairy/soy-free. And you can buy online! HTH!

  • @Salemkitty13‌ - we just this week introduced the oatmeal cereal from Happy Bellies. I did email them to confirm no dairy or soy (it says so on the container but I was worried about the vitamins and probiotics). We are avoiding wheat though so I am not trying their rice cereal, at least not right now. This brand is sold at my local grocery store so that was a plus for me. So far, DD2 seems to be handling it well. Good luck!!

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  • Salemkitty13Salemkitty13 member
    edited July 2014
    @RingOfFire11‌ Thank you, FX for you :)
  • @casey78 -- Congrats on 1 year of BF!!!

    @mamagreene -- Congrats on 31 days with no blood.... awesome!  Thanks for that info about BF thru colitis and Dr. Newman.  I haven't heard of him before but I'm going to take a look at that info that you linked to.  It doesn't seem intuitive to me that I should keep BFing if it's going to cause DD to have blood and mucous in her poops for months -- which means she's at minimum uncomfortable and perhaps in pain.  I don't want to give up too quickly, but I don't know how long I can last knowing that things I'm eating are making her feel this way.  This is hard emotionally.  :(  I'd starve myself if I knew that would make a difference, but then I'd probably stop producing enough milk for her anyway so that's not a better result.

    @amichelle723 -- the soy oil and lecithin is what really surprises me the most.... that has definitely added up in my diet.  I took a look in my pantry and almost all my "snack" foods contain it!!

    @rocknrollfriend -- I am cutting out soy oil & lecithin per advice of pedi.  She said "try to avoid as much as possible" and I really want to get to the bottom of this sooner rather than later, especially since DD has had blood in her diaper the past couple days.  It's going to be a bit harder avoiding the soy oil/lecithin but if it gets DD better more quickly, it's worth it.  The past few days have been hard finding things to eat, but I'm hoping that either I or MH can get to Whole Foods/Trader Joe's this weekend to get me some more things I can eat.

    @Salemkitty13 -- Sorry about your DS's rash and respiratory infection!  Tough week!!  Thanks for the tip on Arnold bread, and on the deli meat -- I didn't know that could contain dairy!!
  • @AmyG* Thank you so much for that super clear explanation!! Very helpful. I had no idea that those specialty formulas still contained the milk or soy; just broken down. What your friend went thru sounds so trying. Thanks for sharing - I really appreciate the info, especially as I have no time to research these things these days as I'd usually do so easily. ;)
  • Yes, thanks AnyG for replying (and good to see you back here!). @giggler25, trust me, I know how difficult it is, emotionally as well as logistically. It really does get easier with time and practice. Get used to reading every.single.label of anything you buy. Set aside a good chunk of time for a grocery store trip where you can check every ingredient - once you have a good set of "safe" foods the trips will be quicker and you'll have food on hand that you can eat. Look through some of our past check in posts on the blog to get some great tips on safe foods and ingredients to avoid. Ask us questions! We are here for support as well as advice. GL!
  • AmyG* said:

    @giggler25

    The issue with switching to formula is that formula contains milk and or soy.  So then you are often right back where you started from.  Nutrimigen and Alimentum are broken down proteins so in theory they are easier to digest, but many bfed babies react to them.  Elecal or other elemental formulas are then the next option, and while the proteins are broken down to their elements, they often aren't a full answer either.  it's really really tough if you stop bfing due to mucous and blood in stool and then go round and round trying all the formulas out there to find one baby can tolerate without mucous and blood in stool. 

    One of the reasons I started reading up and learning so much about breastfeeding oh so many years ago is a good friend had just that situation occur, and she tried every single formula on the market and ended up with an RX formula (past Elecal dont' recall the name any longer) that was so super expensive, and baby was still miserble until they could move to solids and stop formula completely.  Baby was not just intolerant but was allergic to a host of foods, and drs advice to wean to formula did not help.

    The idea is that you can work to remove all traces of an allergen from your diet, and have "clean" breastmilk for baby, but that all the formulas are made from proteins that some babies are allergic to. 

    This is exactly what our GI told me.  He said he always leans more toward having the mom trial foods back in because he doesn't want her to give up breastfeeding.  He said he has seen so many moms struggle with the diet, go to formula only only to have the symptoms worsen and by then the mom's milk is dried up.
  • CherSomethingCherSomething member
    edited July 2014

    This is my first post here. I'm Cheryl. My daughter is 4weeks, 3 days old today. She's been a sensitive girl since the womb, having fetal pre-atrial contractions (irregular heartbeat), then she aspirated meconium at birth which wasn't cured by the standard 7 days of antibiotics. Her little lungs were more sensitive and they swelled and irritated and retained fluid. She is still on oxygen for that. And now her little digestive tract is sensitive and I've had to start dairy and soy elimination. She's had diaper rash for 3 weeks+ that I can't cure, skid marks in every diaper, and suspected reflux. The pediatrician tested her for food allergy by *I think* testing her stool for blood. It came up with a faint positive--so we're trying dairy/soy elimination.

    1. How are you doing? How is your LO doing?

    Well I don't think I've been doing that well. Have to get used to reading EVERY label before consuming. If I screw up, it ruins all my milk. Kind of stressful, no? So I've screwed up a lot of milk this week and my baby's paid for it with gas and harsh stools. Also I'm so hungry because I can't eat hardly anything anymore. 

    2. Any other burning questions you'd like answered or experiences to share?

    Yes, my baby's pediatrician wants me to watch for mucousy or bloody stool in baby's diapers... Stupid question -- am I looking for snot-like substance in her diapers? Will it be obvious? 

    3. For US moms, how was your 4th of July? For moms outside the US, did you do anything fun over the weekend? Did your diet change(s) have any impact?

    It was a boring day like all the others--more like groundhog day. We didn't celebrate with baby hooked up to oxygen. Can't take her within 10 feet of open flames. Too risky with crowds. :( We also didn't drive the 2 hours to my family's since we'd probably run out of oxygen. 

    image  image
    Baby GIRL born June 12
  • @CherSomething Welcome! It sounds like you are under a lot of stress with all that's going on with your baby girl. Big hugs to you, first of all. I hope you find this check-in helpful. Re: the diaper question, yes, you might see snot-like stuff, or it may just be a shiny or watery texture of the stool. If it's green, or foul-smelling, that can also be an indicator of an intolerance. I think if you look online at some typical newborn poop photos (gross, I know) you will get an idea of what the range of normal is. I HTH, GL and let us know if you have more questions!
  • I really hope it isn't her diapers. I use Honest brand (by subscription) which are supposed to be hypo-allergenic. There's nothing in them... And I have a whole other box delivered for her next stage which I haven't even opened yet.. :( 
    My mother bought her some Pampers, I guess I could try those and see if it changes anything. 

    image  image
    Baby GIRL born June 12
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