How to know if it's a sperm or egg issue

beachy6

I've heard some of you talk about how to know if it's a sperm or egg issue while the embryos are developing. Can anyone fill me in on this?

For us, our embryos do great until day 3 and then they pitter out fast. The first cycle we went from 22 egg retrieved, 18 fertilized, 11 on day 3 and then to 4 on day 5, with only one left and it's not a great quality. For this last time, we had 21 eggs retrieved, 16 fertilized, 13 made it through day 3 and only 2 left on day 5. The quality of the 2 blasts was great, but the rest never made it to blast. In your opinions or info you've heard from your RE, is this an egg or sperm issue or is there no way of knowing?

We treated my H with lots of supplements for his dna frag this last cycle and I thought that would make a difference. I know I'm not out of the 2ww, but we are trying to plan next steps, if we can even afford any, and it will most likely include donor something. Obviously, we'll talk to our RE if we need to, but I just like to have an idea of what I'm talking about before we go in there!

And, I just ate a HUGE Hershey kiss that I got from Valentine's day because I 'needed' the chocolate, which is not a good sign...at all. Happens every month one week before my period starts. I tried to tell the kiss that I didn't want it, but somehow it ended up in my stomach. It was so good

Grateful&Thankful

I've heard the same thing as PP. Don't let that IF brain creep in. I know how hard it is but focus on the fact that you txfd 2 great quality blasts. I'm routing for you girl!

beachy6

Well, crap. I was afraid of that. He'll never use donor sperm. Ever. I brought up donor embryos and he looked at me like I was nuts. I'm not sure he even knew that people did this. Well, they do and our junk sucks, so open up to it mister. Ok. that's not exactly what I said, but basically. He's opening up to it. Or just saying that he is so I shut up...

You ladies are so sweet being so positive. I cannot believe how absolutely negative I am this time. I am queen doom and gloom. I think I'm just guarding my emotions, even though it will still hurt like heck to get that negative beta call, but after 10 years of getting negative beta calls, you'd think it would be easier? This morning I have cramps. Yesterday I ate chocolate. Those are both big signs that my poor embryos decided that I was not a good home for the next 9 months. I can hardly blame them. I've seen picture of what it looks like in there. Yikes.

Mrs.McIrish

Oh beachy, I hear you on DS. My DH refused to even talk about it. Yes, I'd say its a sperm issue since the embryos are dying out between day 4-5. Especially since you the DNA frag was high. Did you do PICSI? I was insisting on that if we picked a new donor. My RE poo-pooed the idea saying their trial didn't show clinical differences but I've seen it anecdotally be the difference for ladies on the boards as they had much better embryo quality using it.

beachy6

We didn't do PICSI and I'm not even sure our clinic offers it...

BzeetyD

Sorry you're trying to figure it out. It's tricky. I've heard the egg v sperm thing regarding how long the blasts make it but I don't think all REs agree with that. Did you retest the frag test? When Mister D retested the frag test his score improved by almost double, so we knew the three months of supps worked. He also cut out caffeine and switched to boxers and cut out most alcohol. How long was your hubby working on his frag? Our clinic wouldn't let us cycle with our own sperm - until a) he'd been on supps for 3 months b) we got the frag test re-run We also did PICSI like McIrish mentioned. And we did CCS testing so It's hard for us to know what specifically made the difference - but the sperm quality definitely changed.

sorrellam30

Mrs.McIrish said:

Oh beachy, I hear you on DS. My DH refused to even talk about it. Yes, I'd say its a sperm issue since the embryos are dying out between day 4-5. Especially since you the DNA frag was high. Did you do PICSI? I was insisting on that if we picked a new donor. My RE poo-pooed the idea saying their trial didn't show clinical differences but I've seen it anecdotally be the difference for ladies on the boards as they had much better embryo quality using it.

The only two cycles we found "success" were cycles we used picsi, that said my RE thinks our problem is still eggs which I don't disagree, DH and I are both a mess fertility speaking

mm29

(((Hugs)))  

We were told the same that the PP's stated.  Our last cycle was very much the same. Our embryos looked good on day 3, by day 4 and 5 not so much.  We were told we had unexplained sperm issues, as DH's DNA fragmentation is normal.  

Fingers crossed your cycle is successful and the question if it's the sperm or the egg will be a non-issue.  ((Huge hugs))

ttc23

I don't know if I can offer any advice but thank you for posting this question as we are going through a similar problem. For our most recent cycle. Had 26 eggs retrieved, 24 mature and 19 fertilise. Everything looked great until day 3 when we lost half and then by day 4 we were down to 1 embryo. That embryo stopped developing by day 5. Initially we were told it was probably an egg issue but after I pushed my doctor a bit more he suggested the sperm DNA frag test which my husband had over the weekend. I have done a lot of research and have found info that confirms what other PP's have said- that embryos that arrest after day 3 a likely to be affected by a sperm issue. We are discussing egg donation and embryo donation at the moment...we will have to wait until the results of the sperm DNA frag test. My husband is still not 100% comfortable with a sperm donor but if he comes around to this idea we may do one last cycle with my eggs where we use half donor sperm and half my husbands. That way we would know for sure where the problem lies.

Best of luck and big hugs

beachy6

BzeetyD said:

Sorry you're trying to figure it out. It's tricky. I've heard the egg v sperm thing regarding how long the blasts make it but I don't think all REs agree with that. Did you retest the frag test? When Mister D retested the frag test his score improved by almost double, so we knew the three months of supps worked. He also cut out caffeine and switched to boxers and cut out most alcohol. How long was your hubby working on his frag? Our clinic wouldn't let us cycle with our own sperm - until a) he'd been on supps for 3 months b) we got the frag test re-run We also did PICSI like McIrish mentioned. And we did CCS testing so It's hard for us to know what specifically made the difference - but the sperm quality definitely changed.

I will mention PICSI to our RE, but I really am not sure if our office does it. I do know the place where I'd like to get a second opinion does. DH did his supplements for 2 months, cut out alcohol, and switched to boxers. I think the next time, we'll go longer because I've read that 3 months is the time it takes to re-make (I know that's not the right term!) the sperm. The other clinic that I'd like to get another opinion at also does CCS testing. We definitely have options, I just wish we didn't need them...

 

However, on a really interesting note, I'm as bloated as a house. The bloat had gone down by 3dp5dt and today, it's back with a vengeance. I'm 6dp5dt today. I literally gained 2.5" in stomach girth from this morning until this evening. I feel so full. I should probably call my RE in the morning, but I don't want to jinx it and sound like an idiot and it ends up being horrible gas or something. That would happen to me!

Grateful&Thankful

 

However, on a really interesting note, I'm as bloated as a house. The bloat had gone down by 3dp5dt and today, it's back with a vengeance. I'm 6dp5dt today. I literally gained 2.5" in stomach girth from this morning until this evening. I feel so full. I should probably call my RE in the morning, but I don't want to jinx it and sound like an idiot and it ends up being horrible gas or something. That would happen to me!

Maybe that is a good sign Beachy!!!

J&D2007

We are in the same situation. We have good reports on day 3, but usually only 1 or 2 make it to day 5. All DHs numbers are normal as is his frag. We are stuck on what to do now too. Sure, we could use a donor, but a donor what? Egg? Sperm?