Your official sounding journal is nothing more than a cover for quack, non-science based medical advice.
You're welcome.
A nice little excerpt if you don't want to read the whole article (I don't think reading and research is your strongsuit):
"More importantly, though, I’m about to discuss a medical organization that is steeped in an utterly toxic brew of bad science and extreme ideology. So what? you might ask. Well, there are some fairly prominent physicians that belong to this organization, including Ron Paul, among others, and you never know who in my own place of employment or referral base might also belong. For all I know, one of my bosses might belong. I sincerely hope this isn’t the case (or if it is they just don’t know about the organization’s extreme views), but you never know, and what I’m about to write is going to be harsh indeed because articles from the journal published by this organization are often cited by cranks and pseudoscientists. Sometimes they even make their way into the mainstream press as though they were legitimate scientific studies. Make no mistake, though, when it comes to medical science, this organization deserves every harsh word that I am about to write because it is a major booster of antivaccinationism, HIV/AIDS denialism, and the now discredited hypothesis that abortion causes breast cancer, while on its pages it regularly attacks the very concept of evidence-based medicine and peer-review. That it is an organization of physicians is all the more appalling."
Your official sounding journal is nothing more than a cover for quack, non-science based medical advice.
You're welcome.
A nice little excerpt if you don't want to read the whole article (I don't think reading and research is your strongsuit):
"More importantly, though, I’m about to discuss a medical organization that is steeped in an utterly toxic brew of bad science and extreme ideology. So what? you might ask. Well, there are some fairly prominent physicians that belong to this organization, including Ron Paul, among others, and you never know who in my own place of employment or referral base might also belong. For all I know, one of my bosses might belong. I sincerely hope this isn’t the case (or if it is they just don’t know about the organization’s extreme views), but you never know, and what I’m about to write is going to be harsh indeed because articles from the journal published by this organization are often cited by cranks and pseudoscientists. Sometimes they even make their way into the mainstream press as though they were legitimate scientific studies. Make no mistake, though, when it comes to medical science, this organization deserves every harsh word that I am about to write because it is a major booster of antivaccinationism, HIV/AIDS denialism, and the now discredited hypothesis that abortion causes breast cancer, while on its pages it regularly attacks the very concept of evidence-based medicine and peer-review. That it is an organization of physicians is all the more appalling."
This kind of source is all these crazies ever have.
If it helps you, I have not gotten the flu shot, either. It's a personal choice that my husband and I have made after much research. I also have not gotten the flu in 20+ years, and maybe that's not what many people consider to be a good logical reason, but hey, why fix what's not broken. You're not alone.
Also, don't worry about all of the negative posts, you get that a lot around here if you post something controversial. I learned the hard way not to ask such things. I made a post at the beginning of my pregnancy about being scared and I got quite a few nastygrams (along with some very sensitive posts for which I was grateful).
If it helps you, I have not gotten the flu shot, either. It's a personal choice that my husband and I have made after much research. I also have not gotten the flu in 20+ years, and maybe that's not what many people consider to be a good logical reason, but hey, why fix what's not broken. You're not alone.
Also, don't worry about all of the negative posts, you get that a lot around here if you post something controversial. I learned the hard way not to ask such things. I made a post at the beginning of my pregnancy about being scared and I got quite a few nastygrams (along with some very sensitive posts for which I was grateful).
I've only had the flu once in my 33 years on this earth. It was terrible. Now I get the flu shot. Just because you haven't had the flu yet, doesn't mean you won't. I still think you're an idiot for not getting the flu shot. I hope it doesn't come back to bite you.
If it helps you, I have not gotten the flu shot, either. It's a personal choice that my husband and I have made after much research. I also have not gotten the flu in 20+ years, and maybe that's not what many people consider to be a good logical reason, but hey, why fix what's not broken. You're not alone.
Also, don't worry about all of the negative posts, you get that a lot around here if you post something controversial. I learned the hard way not to ask such things. I made a post at the beginning of my pregnancy about being scared and I got quite a few nastygrams (along with some very sensitive posts for which I was grateful).
I never got the flu shot either, until I found out I was pregnant. I feel like it's selfish not to get one while pregnant. Just look at the comparison of people who are against who is not. Just because "it's not broken" doesn't mean anything. My husband never gets the flu shot, but guess what he did this year because i'm pregnant, he admitted it'd be selfish if he didn't. That coming from someone who always said the flu shot made him "sick", he's yet to get sick from it.
I've never had the flu shot either and I can't even tell you the last time I've been sick with anything remotely close to the flu. If it ain't broke don't try and fix it!
If your getting your flu shot...good for you, it's your choice! But don't automatically assume those that are not getting a flu shot are not medically aware.
I've never had the flu shot either and I can't even tell you the last time I've been sick with anything remotely close to the flu. If it ain't broke don't try and fix it!
If your getting your flu shot...good for you, it's your choice! But don't automatically assume those that are not getting a flu shot are not medically aware.
You're not. Or you would get it.
I forgot about the seatbelt comparison. When is the last time you were ejected from a car? And yet do you still wear a seatbelt as a preventive measure? Oh, I bet you do. Or you are even more dumb than I already think you are.
Oh don't count on it.
My moronic coworker that refused to get a flu shot while pregnant and gave all kinds of reasons on why she wasn't getting a flu shot. Here are my 3 favorites: 1. They already poke her with enough needles with all the blood work they did. 2. How do you know the flu shot is safe? 3. She got the flu shot one year and got the stomach flu, so the flu shot didn't work. I tried explaining why the flu shot was important and why her reasons (particularly the third) for not getting it were idiotic, but it was a waste of time you can't fix stupid.
She also refused to wear a seatbelt while pregnant because "the seatbelt might injure the baby if she got into an accident." I tried to tell her that sticking her head through windshield and dying was probably worse for the baby, but apparently WTF do I know.
I also love these stupid threads that never seem to die. This will probably still be going by the time I manage to get pregnant and am actually in my 1st tri.
DH (32): SA is ok, slightly low morph, normal SCSA Me (32): Slightly low progesterone, hostile CM, carrier for CF, Moderately high NKC, High TNFa, heterozyogous mutated Factor XIII, and +APA
October 2012-May 2014: 4 failed IUIs, 3 failed IVFs, and 1 failed FETw/donor embryos
November 2014: IVF w/ICSI #4 Agonist/Antagonist with EPP and Prednisone, Baby Aspirin, Lovenox, and IVIG for immune issues. Converted to freeze all due to lining issues. 2 blasts frozen on day 6!
January 2015: FET #2 Cancelled due to lining issues
Not looking to participate in a debate here, but I will offer this to anyone whom wishes to abstain from getting the flu shot - prescribed by my Naturopathic Doctor - Dr. Nenninger's Triple Flu Defense 2013-2014 flu season. 20 drops once per week to be taken preventatively.
I've never had the flu shot either and I can't even tell you the last time I've been sick with anything remotely close to the flu. If it ain't broke don't try and fix it!
If your getting your flu shot...good for you, it's your choice! But don't automatically assume those that are not getting a flu shot are not medically aware.
You're not. Or you would get it.
I forgot about the seatbelt comparison. When is the last time you were ejected from a car? And yet do you still wear a seatbelt as a preventive measure? Oh, I bet you do. Or you are even more dumb than I already think you are.
Oh don't count on it.
My moronic coworker that refused to get a flu shot while pregnant and gave all kinds of reasons on why she wasn't getting a flu shot. Here are my 3 favorites: 1. They already poke her with enough needles with all the blood work they did. 2. How do you know the flu shot is safe? 3. She got the flu shot one year and got the stomach flu, so the flu shot didn't work. I tried explaining why the flu shot was important and why her reasons (particularly the third) for not getting it were idiotic, but it was a waste of time you can't fix stupid.
She also refused to wear a seatbelt while pregnant because "the seatbelt might injure the baby if she got into an accident." I tried to tell her that sticking her head through windshield and dying was probably worse for the baby, but apparently WTF do I know.
I also love these stupid threads that never seem to die. This will probably still be going by the time I manage to get pregnant and am actually in my 1st tri.
Not looking to participate in a debate here, but I will offer this to anyone whom wishes to abstain from getting the flu shot - prescribed by my Naturopathic Doctor - Dr. Nenninger's Triple Flu Defense 2013-2014 flu season. 20 drops once per week to be taken preventatively.
Not looking to participate in a debate here, but I will offer this to anyone whom wishes to abstain from getting the flu shot - prescribed by my Naturopathic Doctor - Dr. Nenninger's Triple Flu Defense 2013-2014 flu season. 20 drops once per week to be taken preventatively.
I googled only a couple of the ingredients and found that pregnant and nursing women are advised to consult their doctor before using several of the ingredients....but you guys don't trust your doctors because they want you to take the flu shot. Meanies.
Not looking to participate in a debate here, but I will offer this to anyone whom wishes to abstain from getting the flu shot - prescribed by my Naturopathic Doctor - Dr. Nenninger's Triple Flu Defense 2013-2014 flu season. 20 drops once per week to be taken preventatively.
Influenzinum: "Influenzinum is a homeopathic medicine made from flu viruses" (source). So, um, just like the vaccine? But probably less effective?
Mercurius vivus: OK, the best I can figure out is that this is some form of mercury. Hello, it has MERCURY in it?
----mobile quote fail----
I was gonna mention that this had scary sounding ingredients that a lot of anti shot people will bitch about being in shots, but I didn't want to jump on that train as they should (one would hope) be as innocuous as what's in shots....but looking up this form of mercury I found it is also referred to as quicksilver mercury...the bad one...the one that all the anti vaxers are afraid of. But dammit! It says homeopathic!
ETA: My research skills suffer on mobile, but what i found is that the mercury in these drops is the dangerous mythl mercury, not the safe ethyl mercury found in the flu shot.
I've never had the flu shot either and I can't even tell you the last time I've been sick with anything remotely close to the flu. If it ain't broke don't try and fix it!
If your getting your flu shot...good for you, it's your choice! But don't automatically assume those that are not getting a flu shot are not medically aware.
You're not. Or you would get it.
I forgot about the seatbelt comparison. When is the last time you were ejected from a car? And yet do you still wear a seatbelt as a preventive measure? Oh, I bet you do. Or you are even more dumb than I already think you are.
Oh don't count on it.
My moronic coworker that refused to get a flu shot while pregnant and gave all kinds of reasons on why she wasn't getting a flu shot. Here are my 3 favorites: 1. They already poke her with enough needles with all the blood work they did. 2. How do you know the flu shot is safe? 3. She got the flu shot one year and got the stomach flu, so the flu shot didn't work. I tried explaining why the flu shot was important and why her reasons (particularly the third) for not getting it were idiotic, but it was a waste of time you can't fix stupid.
She also refused to wear a seatbelt while pregnant because "the seatbelt might injure the baby if she got into an accident." I tried to tell her that sticking her head through windshield and dying was probably worse for the baby, but apparently WTF do I know.
I also love these stupid threads that never seem to die. This will probably still be going by the time I manage to get pregnant and am actually in my 1st tri.
I know there are differing perspectives on this issue, and I think it is unfair to lump flu shots in with general vaccines. I will definitely vaccinate my child when he/she is older, but I do not believe it is necessary to get a flu shot while pregnant. I know the research and the options, I've looked at all of it. And I work at a restaurant, so somewhat high risk for exposure, but from what I've read, taking precautions to wash hands, cover mouth when coughing, and staying home when sick would do as much to prevent infection as a shot. PLUS, if you go to the manufacturer's site, NONE of the flu shots are deemed safe or effective for pregnant women. Studies are simply inconclusive. I'll take my chance on the known evil rather than the unknown one.
And before anyone jumps on me for it, I went back and read through most of the thread. Most of it's anecdotal or name calling. I didn't see any conclusive studies. Is there really proof that getting a flu shot will lessen symptoms of a different strain (assuming you get sick later, as some have claimed)? Genuine question, not being snarky.
And yes, I understand that the flu is airborne. That doesn't mean hand washing doesn't cut down on exposure to it, and I'll wear a mask if I need to. And no, seatbelts aren't 100% effective, but at least I know the risks associated with wearing one. (Minimal unless in a bad accident, in which case seatbelt "damage" would probably be least of my worries). But need I remind anyone of thalidomide? That was a drug that was never tested on pregnant women yet prescribed to them for morning sickness, and horrible horrible birth defects resulted. It's not insane or stupid to be cautious about what you're putting in your body and your fetus. And I'm not even talking about the thimerosol cause I know they have the newer thimerosol free shots. I'm talking about a conclusive medical study showing flu shots to be safe in pregnant women. More than likely, risks are minimal. But call me crazy, I'd like to know what they are. When that can be more definitively proven, manufacturers will remove that warning from their product (as I'm sure it doesn't help sales to have it on there). If you have a study, please share actual data. Not a CDC pamphlet or a news article or stories about your sister's neighbor's best friend. I have yet to find one.
I have a son with severe autism and am sick of the anti-vaccine crowd. Instead of researching ways to improve they want to chase theories already shown to be false. It's very frustrating.
I know there are differing perspectives on this issue, and I think it is unfair to lump flu shots in with general vaccines. I will definitely vaccinate my child when he/she is older, but I do not believe it is necessary to get a flu shot while pregnant. I know the research and the options, I've looked at all of it. And I work at a restaurant, so somewhat high risk for exposure, but from what I've read, taking precautions to wash hands, cover mouth when coughing, and staying home when sick would do as much to prevent infection as a shot. PLUS, if you go to the manufacturer's site, NONE of the flu shots are deemed safe or effective for pregnant women. Studies are simply inconclusive. I'll take my chance on the known evil rather than the unknown one.
Wait. How does covering YOUR mouth when you cough or staying home when YOU'RE sick prevent the flu?
I know there are differing perspectives on this issue, and I think it is unfair to lump flu shots in with general vaccines. I will definitely vaccinate my child when he/she is older, but I do not believe it is necessary to get a flu shot while pregnant. I know the research and the options, I've looked at all of it. And I work at a restaurant, so somewhat high risk for exposure, but from what I've read, taking precautions to wash hands, cover mouth when coughing, and staying home when sick would do as much to prevent infection as a shot. PLUS, if you go to the manufacturer's site, NONE of the flu shots are deemed safe or effective for pregnant women. Studies are simply inconclusive. I'll take my chance on the known evil rather than the unknown one.
Wait. How does covering YOUR mouth when you cough or staying home when YOU'RE sick prevent the flu?
Apparently she expects everyone else to stay home when they're sick. What an idiotic line of thinking.
Also, @carmanae there have been plenty of peer-reviewed, medical journal articles about the flu vaccine and safety. Some of which have been linked here.
Also, I hate this whole "CDC/FDA is out to get us" mentaility. The government has a very vested interest in keeping its citizens healthy. If we're not healthy, we don't work. If we don't work, we can't pay taxes. Also, if we can't work due to disability, the government has to pay us (assuming you worked long enough to contribute to SS).
ETA:
One article from a very quick Google search (a peer-reviewed medical journal article) stating no adverse affects/increased risk found when comparing women exposed to the vaccine and unexposed:
An excerpt from the above article written by actual research scientists:
“We found no meaningful evidence of an increase in risk for many specific major birth defects if a woman received the flu shot early in pregnancy,” said Carol Louik, ScD, lead investigator of the Boston University team. “A concern about the risk of specific birth defects was a critical question that has not been considered very much until now, and our data are reassuring.”
And before anyone jumps on me for it, I went back and read through most of the thread. Most of it's anecdotal or name calling. I didn't see any conclusive studies. Is there really proof that getting a flu shot will lessen symptoms of a different strain (assuming you get sick later, as some have claimed)? Genuine question, not being snarky.
And yes, I understand that the flu is airborne. That doesn't mean hand washing doesn't cut down on exposure to it, and I'll wear a mask if I need to. And no, seatbelts aren't 100% effective, but at least I know the risks associated with wearing one. (Minimal unless in a bad accident, in which case seatbelt "damage" would probably be least of my worries). But need I remind anyone of thalidomide? That was a drug that was never tested on pregnant women yet prescribed to them for morning sickness, and horrible horrible birth defects resulted. It's not insane or stupid to be cautious about what you're putting in your body and your fetus. And I'm not even talking about the thimerosol cause I know they have the newer thimerosol free shots. I'm talking about a conclusive medical study showing flu shots to be safe in pregnant women. More than likely, risks are minimal. But call me crazy, I'd like to know what they are. When that can be more definitively proven, manufacturers will remove that warning from their product (as I'm sure it doesn't help sales to have it on there). If you have a study, please share actual data. Not a CDC pamphlet or a news article or stories about your sister's neighbor's best friend. I have yet to find one.
OK, I know this makes me a bitch, but am I the only one, who, if their server were wearing a mask in a restaurant, would request a different one?
And the CDC shares the studies and collects the data so we don't have to do so. If you reject the CDC as a legitimate resource, there is nothing anyone can say that will convince you, so don't pretend you are open to knowledge when you really aren't.
Also, I love how these anti-flu vaccine idiots come in here and drop and run. They spew their <dumbass> shit and then never reappear. It makes their arguments look really valid.
Andplusalso, why is the responsibility always on us pro-vaxers to provide proof that vaccines are safe? I don't know what else you want. The CDC says it's safe. My doctor says it's safe. There have been teams of medical researchers worldwide saying it's safe. Where's your peer-reviewed, medical evidence that it's not safe? Oh right, it's because there isn't any, is there?
Not looking to participate in a debate here, but I will offer this to anyone whom wishes to abstain from getting the flu shot - prescribed by my Naturopathic Doctor - Dr. Nenninger's Triple Flu Defense 2013-2014 flu season. 20 drops once per week to be taken preventatively.
Influenzinum: "Influenzinum is a homeopathic medicine made from flu viruses" (source). So, um, just like the vaccine? But probably less effective?
Mercurius vivus: OK, the best I can figure out is that this is some form of mercury. Hello, it has MERCURY in it?
Organic/elemental mercury of either kind is something you want to avoid in pregnancy.
Also Arsenicum Album is an ARSENIC compound. Granted, it is medicinal when dilute. But this isn't FDA regulated is it? WHY would you trust that!
PLEASE PLEASE THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU TAKE THIS, ESPECIALLY WHEN PREGNANT!
PG#1 - 3rd cycle BFP. Team Green. HELLP syndrome @ 34 weeks. Later diagnosed with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, possible link to HELLP.
PG#2 M/C 3/14 - Surprise BFP 2/13. Beta's doubled every 52 hours from 3w5d-5w5d Viable pregnancy scan at 5w5d; 2nd u/s showed 2 days of growth in 7 but a HB of 120 3rd u/s on 3/10/14 had no HB and baby had only grown 7 days over 14 D&C 3/17/14 - complications - DX Retroflexed uterus, multiple tears to cervix
I have searched and I did go back through all 10 pages of insufferably nested replies, and I did not see any links to articles other than from the CDC, a news source, or an anecdotal story. I have google searched, and those are typically what comes up. It's not that I don't trust the CDC or the government. I just don't want another page stating their summation. I want to see the data. (I was a statistician previously, and I know how things can get manipulated). Most of what you just provided does not constitute a scientific study; however, the sciencedirect link is helpful, thank you. I'm not refusing to listen, as you are to me. I would love to see some more studies because this is the first one I've seen, and unfortunately, it costs money to read. But I'm simply cautious about it cause I generally prefer to avoid medicine unless absolutely necessary, like antibiotics or the other vaccinations which I am in favor of. Yeah, that means I'm going to try for a natural childbirth. Not cause I think epidural's are dangerous, just cause I'd rather avoid using something unless I really need it. That's called a choice, and we're all entitled to it.
As for proving that flu shots are dangerous, we can't because there haven't been sufficient studies done. That's my point! And you can't prove that they are. Every year, the flu shot gets updated to protect against the most likely strains that year. That makes clinical trials very difficult. All you are saying is that the flu is dangerous to pregnant women, which it is, but the one does not necessitate the other.
And yeah, I know how covering your mouth works. People might listen to you pro-vaxers more if you weren't so obnoxious about it. But I know you don't care about that. But you talk about herd immunity, and how everyone would be better off if everyone did something... well, add in covering your mouth and staying home when you're sick. That would be pretty helpful too. So let's chalk it all up to a little wishful thinking. I know people at my restaurant come in sick, but I also know I won't be able to continue working there for much longer. (And why do you assume I'm a server? I could be a dishwasher or a cook, in which case no one would ever know I was wearing a mask.) And IF I get the flu, then I WILL go in to see my doctor to make sure it doesn't become dangerous. I know that isn't a 100%, but neither is getting the shot. We're all just hedging bets.
So wait, you will go to the doctor if you get the flu? For what? Fucking Tamiflu?
Oh, so you aren't up to date on what a pile of shit that drug is. Maybe you should research beyond conspiracy theories as to why flu shots are bag.
And I don't give a fuck if you are a hostess, server, cook, dishwasher, or manager- if you work in food service you should be nowhere near the building if you have a confirmed case of the flu and if your stupid ass does show up (thanks for spreading the virus, dick) you should have a mask on REGARDLESS of where you are working. That's fucking unsanitary and you should be shut down for that crap. You are a public health risk.
I have searched and I did go back through all 10 pages of insufferably nested replies, and I did not see any links to articles other than from the CDC, a news source, or an anecdotal story. I have google searched, and those are typically what comes up. It's not that I don't trust the CDC or the government. I just don't want another page stating their summation. I want to see the data. (I was a statistician previously, and I know how things can get manipulated). Most of what you just provided does not constitute a scientific study; however, the sciencedirect link is helpful, thank you. I'm not refusing to listen, as you are to me. I would love to see some more studies because this is the first one I've seen, and unfortunately, it costs money to read. But I'm simply cautious about it cause I generally prefer to avoid medicine unless absolutely necessary, like antibiotics or the other vaccinations which I am in favor of. Yeah, that means I'm going to try for a natural childbirth. Not cause I think epidural's are dangerous, just cause I'd rather avoid using something unless I really need it. That's called a choice, and we're all entitled to it.
As for proving that flu shots are dangerous, we can't because there haven't been sufficient studies done. That's my point! And you can't prove that they are. Every year, the flu shot gets updated to protect against the most likely strains that year. That makes clinical trials very difficult. All you are saying is that the flu is dangerous to pregnant women, which it is, but the one does not necessitate the other.
And yeah, I know how covering your mouth works. People might listen to you pro-vaxers more if you weren't so obnoxious about it. But I know you don't care about that. But you talk about herd immunity, and how everyone would be better off if everyone did something... well, add in covering your mouth and staying home when you're sick. That would be pretty helpful too. So let's chalk it all up to a little wishful thinking. I know people at my restaurant come in sick, but I also know I won't be able to continue working there for much longer. (And why do you assume I'm a server? I could be a dishwasher or a cook, in which case no one would ever know I was wearing a mask.) And IF I get the flu, then I WILL go in to see my doctor to make sure it doesn't become dangerous. I know that isn't a 100%, but neither is getting the shot. We're all just hedging bets.
You do realize there are not the medical studies you are looking for because you can't just round up a bunch of pregnant woman and try out stuff on them. It's the same reason there aren't studies supporting your claim. Medical ethics get in the way. The only research is to analyze a group of women who chose to get the vaccine vs. those that didn't. That gives you statistics, which you are looking for. Those statistics, so far, say there is no increased risk of miscarriage or birth defects in women given the flu vaccine. However, there is definitely an increased risk of miscarriage if a pregnant woman contracts the flu. Seems like the statistics heavily favor the vaccine, no?
Also, you get the vaccine because you can't control what other people do. You are never going to make anyone stay home when they're sick. You're just not. Also, LOL at your choice. Well, when your choice affects the health and safety of others around you, other people have a right to call you a selfish twat. Some people can't get the vaccine and they rely on others to protect themselves to protect the "herd". So, it's not just about you. I guessdrunk driving is your choice, too, but you don't do that because you have potential to harm others and yourself, right?
Also, if you do get the flu and go to see a doctor to mitigate the risk, they will probably give you tamiflu, on which there is less research on pregnant women.
Also, serious LOLZ at the pro-vaxers being obnoxious. Most of the anti-vaxers are the most militant, obnoxious people I've ever met.
• Safety and effectiveness of Fluzone has not been established in pregnant women. (8.1)
So this is what you are pointing out in your drug pamphlet link, correct? That's because THEY CAN"T DO MEDICAL RESEARCH STUDIES ON PREGNANT WOMEN. You do realize this is probably in every single FDA approved drug, vaccine, etc. that's prescribed, right?
See, you all assume I'm saying things I'm not. I'm not saying I'll wear a mask if I get sick. I stay home when I get sick. I'm saying I'll wear a mask to not get sick. How is that stupid? And there are other ways to manage the flu than to take antivirals. I can take things like Tylenol to lower my fever, or get antibiotics if it's caused any complications, or get an IV if I'm seriously dehydrated. I'm not disbelieving my doctor when I haven't gotten a shot because my doctor has not told me I NEED to get one. In fact, he hasn't mentioned it at all.
It's not conspiracy theories. It's on the fucking manufacturer label.
"Pregnancy Category C: Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with Fluzone. It is also not known whether Fluzone can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction capacity. Fluzone should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed."
"That's because THEY CAN"T DO MEDICAL RESEARCH STUDIES ON PREGNANT WOMEN. You do realize this is probably in every single FDA approved drug, vaccine, etc. that's prescribed, right?"
No it's not. That's why there are different classes of drugs. That's why, when you get pregnant, they give you a list of drugs that are proven safe by the medical community. And yeah, they don't do studies on pregnant humans, they generally do them on animals.
"That's because THEY CAN"T DO MEDICAL RESEARCH STUDIES ON PREGNANT WOMEN. You do realize this is probably in every single FDA approved drug, vaccine, etc. that's prescribed, right?"
No it's not. That's why there are different classes of drugs. That's why, when you get pregnant, they give you a list of drugs that are proven safe by the medical community. And yeah, they don't do studies on pregnant humans, they generally do them on animals.
Yes, and animal studies don't always correlate to humans, either. That's why they have done the statistical studies that I linked above. It's also hard to do studies on animals and correlate the data to humans when the animal you are doing the study on is not affected by, say, the flu. All you are left with is statistics. Those statistics say it's safe for most of the population of pregnant women. Of course, there is always a risk, but it's small. There is a risk with anything you take or do, though.
Insert from penicillin (which lots of women get for bacterial infections while pregnant):
Pregnancy Category B–Teratogenic Effects: Reproduction studies performed in the mouse, rat, and rabbit have revealed no evidence of impaired fertility or harm to the fetus due to penicillin G. Human experience with the penicillins during pregnancy has not shown any positive evidence of adverse effects on the fetus. There are, however, no adequate and well controlled studies in pregnant women showing conclusively that harmful effects of these drugs on the fetus can be excluded. Because animal reproduction studies are not always predictive of human response, this drug should be used during pregnancy only if clearly needed.
The only difference is that there have been animal studies done that show no adverse affects on fetuses. However, it says right there at the bottom that "animal reproduction studies are not always predictive of human response". So, yes, that warning is technically on all vaccines, antibiotics, etc. because WE CAN'T DO MEDICAL RESEARCH STUDIES ON PREGNANT HUMANS!! Again, you see that their human research here is limited to experience (statistics), which is following a group of women who required the medication.
But you had better just go ahead and die of a bacterial infection, because penicillin (and every other antibiotic) hasn't been proven truly safe for pregnant women via the medical research you are looking for.
"That's because THEY CAN"T DO MEDICAL RESEARCH STUDIES ON PREGNANT WOMEN. You do realize this is probably in every single FDA approved drug, vaccine, etc. that's prescribed, right?"
No it's not. That's why there are different classes of drugs. That's why, when you get pregnant, they give you a list of drugs that are proven safe by the medical community. And yeah, they don't do studies on pregnant humans, they generally do them on animals.
even Tylenol says "if pregnant or breastfeeding talk to your physician before using" so........ I also take a cat D medication because I would be much worse off if I didn't. My child so far is what I would consider in perfect condition.
I haven't gotten a flu shot myself since I was a child - and I haven't had the Flu since I was a kid. My doctor told me that it was recommended, however she did not pressure me to do it. With the timing of my pregnancy (I'm only 9 week now), and the flu season now coming to an end my doctor said I was probably just fine if I decided against it.
I'm not a fan of putting anything in my body I don't need. And while the flu could still catch up with me, I also know that most people I know who do get the shot end up getting the flu (because it doesn't cover all strains!). If that is the case, why bother. Stay healthy, active, take your vitamins, and do what you can to stay away from people with colds/the flu.
Of course, this is just my opinion. I know people who get their flu shots religiously every season. Whatever works for you - follow your gut!
I haven't gotten a flu shot myself since I was a child - and I haven't had the Flu since I was a kid. My doctor told me that it was recommended, however she did not pressure me to do it. With the timing of my pregnancy (I'm only 9 week now), and the flu season now coming to an end my doctor said I was probably just fine if I decided against it.
I'm not a fan of putting anything in my body I don't need. And while the flu could still catch up with me, I also know that most people I know who do get the shot end up getting the flu (because it doesn't cover all strains!). If that is the case, why bother. Stay healthy, active, take your vitamins, and do what you can to stay away from people with colds/the flu.
Of course, this is just my opinion. I know people who get their flu shots religiously every season. Whatever works for you - follow your gut!
I haven't gotten a flu shot myself since I was a child - and I haven't had the Flu since I was a kid. My doctor told me that it was recommended, however she did not pressure me to do it. With the timing of my pregnancy (I'm only 9 week now), and the flu season now coming to an end my doctor said I was probably just fine if I decided against it.
I'm not a fan of putting anything in my body I don't need. And while the flu could still catch up with me, I also know that most people I know who do get the shot end up getting the flu (because it doesn't cover all strains!). If that is the case, why bother. Stay healthy, active, take your vitamins, and do what you can to stay away from people with colds/the flu.
Of course, this is just my opinion. I know people who get their flu shots religiously every season. Whatever works for you - follow your gut!
I take 1000 mg of vit. C a day and still got sick. Pretty darn sick that I'm still getting over. I am also a stay at home wife so I have very little contact with anyone unless of course I go out for errands and that's not everyday. I also carry a huge bottle of hand sanitizer and use it RELIGIOUSLY . Wipe down the grocery carts. I'm a germ freak and I still got sick.
You know, I just do not get this whole, "I've never gotten a shot before and I've been fine, so I'll just go with that" mentality. If you are pregnant, there are SO many things you've done before and been just fine, but you change those behaviors when you are carrying a child because protecting that fetus is your number one priority. I drank lots of booze and ate whatever the fuck I wanted before I got pregnant and I was fine, but that doesn't mean I can do those things while I'm carrying a child. On that same token, I never got a flu shot before, but as soon as I found out I was pregnant, I got one. Why? Because women and unborn babies fucking DIE from the flu. It's not hearsay or a giant conspiracy. It's a fucking fact. There is no way I would jeopardize the life of my child (not to mention my own life) because I was too stupid.
Actually, I've only take Tylenol once since finding out, and that was in week 5, and I don't plan on taking another one. See, I REALLY don't like medicine, and I NEVER take Sudafed or medicines like that. I won't even take Tums for indigestion right now (or ever). It's a mild discomfort that goes away after a little while, so why bother. And there are other complications from the flu than pneumonia. If I won't take Sudafed, do you really think I'm going to unnecessarily take antibiotics?
Yes, I understand it's hard to compare animals studies to humans, and I know likelihood is small for there to be serious risks. If there were, I'm sure they would have noticed something by now. But the vaccine is being changed every year, making statistical observations difficult. "...adverse event rates observed in the clinical trials of a vaccine cannot be directly compared to rates in the clinical trial of another vaccine, and may not reflect the rates observed in practice." I also understand that the flu is proven dangerous, and the shot is not, and many of you feel that that is reason enough. I'm merely looking for more evidence.
I'm not militantly refusing to listen to the research (from scientific sources like https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X1201345X, not CNN). See, I'm asking for it. I plan on talking about it with my new midwife (the old doctor kinda sucked) and I will respectfully listen to her judgements on the matter. Considering that flu season is nearing its end, I'm hoping I can still avoid it. I wasn't trying to change anyone's minds about it, I know that's a pretty futile game. I was merely trying to state my thoughts on it, and attempt to get some of yours, since they are in fact thoughts and none of you are medical professionals. If our doctors aren't demanding we get shots, then who are you to do so? I thought it would be helpful to see what you've found. Instead, you just resort to belittling and misunderstanding, and seriously, an excessive amount of gifs. My mistake. Calling people stupid for not blindly agreeing with you is even more stupid.
Actually, I've only take Tylenol once since finding out, and that was in week 5, and I don't plan on taking another one. See, I REALLY don't like medicine, and I NEVER take Sudafed or medicines like that. I won't even take Tums for indigestion right now (or ever). It's a mild discomfort that goes away after a little while, so why bother. And there are other complications from the flu than pneumonia. If I won't take Sudafed, do you really think I'm going to unnecessarily take antibiotics?
FTM right? And you are in your 1st tri? I wouldn't be saying "never" to taking Tylenol or Tums the rest of your pregnancy.
I lived on a healthy diet of Tums and Zantac.
Dare you to try to eat pizza in your 3rd tri and just sit through the "mild discomfort that only lasts a little while."
Haha. 3rd tri heartburn is a bitch, isn't it? I couldn't eat anything in 3rd tri without causing major heartburn/indigestion.
Re: Anyone else against the flu shot?
@Huntersbird if you ever decide to come back to this thread, I am going to leave this here:
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-journal-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons-ideology-trumps-science-based-medicine/
Your official sounding journal is nothing more than a cover for quack, non-science based medical advice.
You're welcome.
A nice little excerpt if you don't want to read the whole article (I don't think reading and research is your strongsuit):
"More importantly, though, I’m about to discuss a medical organization that is steeped in an utterly toxic brew of bad science and extreme ideology. So what? you might ask. Well, there are some fairly prominent physicians that belong to this organization, including Ron Paul, among others, and you never know who in my own place of employment or referral base might also belong. For all I know, one of my bosses might belong. I sincerely hope this isn’t the case (or if it is they just don’t know about the organization’s extreme views), but you never know, and what I’m about to write is going to be harsh indeed because articles from the journal published by this organization are often cited by cranks and pseudoscientists. Sometimes they even make their way into the mainstream press as though they were legitimate scientific studies. Make no mistake, though, when it comes to medical science, this organization deserves every harsh word that I am about to write because it is a major booster of antivaccinationism, HIV/AIDS denialism, and the now discredited hypothesis that abortion causes breast cancer, while on its pages it regularly attacks the very concept of evidence-based medicine and peer-review. That it is an organization of physicians is all the more appalling."
I wonder why that is....
TTC #1 since August 2011
My Blog
September 2012: Start IF testing
DH (32): SA is ok, slightly low morph, normal SCSA Me (32): Slightly low progesterone, hostile CM, carrier for CF, Moderately high NKC, High TNFa, heterozyogous mutated Factor XIII, and +APA
October 2012-May 2014: 4 failed IUIs, 3 failed IVFs, and 1 failed FETw/donor embryos
November 2014: IVF w/ICSI #4 Agonist/Antagonist with EPP and Prednisone, Baby Aspirin, Lovenox, and IVIG for immune issues. Converted to freeze all due to lining issues. 2 blasts frozen on day 6!
January 2015: FET #2 Cancelled due to lining issues
April 2015: FET #2.1
PAIF/SAIF Welcome!
That woman shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.
I googled only a couple of the ingredients and found that pregnant and nursing women are advised to consult their doctor before using several of the ingredients....but you guys don't trust your doctors because they want you to take the flu shot. Meanies.
But seriously. Please, someone else tell me that those ingredients don't seem... I don't know. Ironic? Odd? Particularly the two I bolded:
"Active Ingredients:
Anas barbariae 30C HPUS**, Arsenicum album 30C HPUS, Bryonia 30C HPUS, Cochlearia armoracia 30C HPUS, Eucalyptus 30C HPUS, Gelsemium 30C HPUS, Influenzinum 30C HPUS, Kalium muriaticum 30C HPUS, Mercurius vivus 30C HPUS, Phosphoricum acidum 30C HPUS, Phytolacca 30C HPUS, Sulfur 30C HPUS"
Influenzinum: "Influenzinum is a homeopathic medicine made from flu viruses" (source). So, um, just like the vaccine? But probably less effective?
Mercurius vivus: OK, the best I can figure out is that this is some form of mercury. Hello, it has MERCURY in it?
----mobile quote fail----
I was gonna mention that this had scary sounding ingredients that a lot of anti shot people will bitch about being in shots, but I didn't want to jump on that train as they should (one would hope) be as innocuous as what's in shots....but looking up this form of mercury I found it is also referred to as quicksilver mercury...the bad one...the one that all the anti vaxers are afraid of. But dammit! It says homeopathic!
ETA: My research skills suffer on mobile, but what i found is that the mercury in these drops is the dangerous mythl mercury, not the safe ethyl mercury found in the flu shot.
And before anyone jumps on me for it, I went back and read through most of the thread. Most of it's anecdotal or name calling. I didn't see any conclusive studies. Is there really proof that getting a flu shot will lessen symptoms of a different strain (assuming you get sick later, as some have claimed)? Genuine question, not being snarky.
And yes, I understand that the flu is airborne. That doesn't mean hand washing doesn't cut down on exposure to it, and I'll wear a mask if I need to. And no, seatbelts aren't 100% effective, but at least I know the risks associated with wearing one. (Minimal unless in a bad accident, in which case seatbelt "damage" would probably be least of my worries). But need I remind anyone of thalidomide? That was a drug that was never tested on pregnant women yet prescribed to them for morning sickness, and horrible horrible birth defects resulted. It's not insane or stupid to be cautious about what you're putting in your body and your fetus. And I'm not even talking about the thimerosol cause I know they have the newer thimerosol free shots. I'm talking about a conclusive medical study showing flu shots to be safe in pregnant women. More than likely, risks are minimal. But call me crazy, I'd like to know what they are. When that can be more definitively proven, manufacturers will remove that warning from their product (as I'm sure it doesn't help sales to have it on there). If you have a study, please share actual data. Not a CDC pamphlet or a news article or stories about your sister's neighbor's best friend. I have yet to find one.
Apparently she expects everyone else to stay home when they're sick. What an idiotic line of thinking.
Also, @carmanae there have been plenty of peer-reviewed, medical journal articles about the flu vaccine and safety. Some of which have been linked here.
Also, I hate this whole "CDC/FDA is out to get us" mentaility. The government has a very vested interest in keeping its citizens healthy. If we're not healthy, we don't work. If we don't work, we can't pay taxes. Also, if we can't work due to disability, the government has to pay us (assuming you worked long enough to contribute to SS).
ETA:
One article from a very quick Google search (a peer-reviewed medical journal article) stating no adverse affects/increased risk found when comparing women exposed to the vaccine and unexposed:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X13012097
And this article which explains the above article in more layman's terms:
https://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2013-09-23-flu-vaccine-and-pregnancy.aspx
An excerpt from the above article written by actual research scientists:
“We found no meaningful evidence of an increase in risk for many specific major birth defects if a woman received the flu shot early in pregnancy,” said Carol Louik, ScD, lead investigator of the Boston University team. “A concern about the risk of specific birth defects was a critical question that has not been considered very much until now, and our data are reassuring.”
OK, I know this makes me a bitch, but am I the only one, who, if their server were wearing a mask in a restaurant, would request a different one?
And the CDC shares the studies and collects the data so we don't have to do so. If you reject the CDC as a legitimate resource, there is nothing anyone can say that will convince you, so don't pretend you are open to knowledge when you really aren't.
Also, I love how these anti-flu vaccine idiots come in here and drop and run. They spew their <dumbass> shit and then never reappear. It makes their arguments look really valid.
Andplusalso, why is the responsibility always on us pro-vaxers to provide proof that vaccines are safe? I don't know what else you want. The CDC says it's safe. My doctor says it's safe. There have been teams of medical researchers worldwide saying it's safe. Where's your peer-reviewed, medical evidence that it's not safe? Oh right, it's because there isn't any, is there?
Edited for apostrophes.
But seriously. Please, someone else tell me that those ingredients don't seem... I don't know. Ironic? Odd? Particularly the two I bolded:
"Active Ingredients:
Anas barbariae 30C HPUS**, Arsenicum album 30C HPUS, Bryonia 30C HPUS, Cochlearia armoracia 30C HPUS, Eucalyptus 30C HPUS, Gelsemium 30C HPUS, Influenzinum 30C HPUS, Kalium muriaticum 30C HPUS, Mercurius vivus 30C HPUS, Phosphoricum acidum 30C HPUS, Phytolacca 30C HPUS, Sulfur 30C HPUS"
Influenzinum: "Influenzinum is a homeopathic medicine made from flu viruses" (source). So, um, just like the vaccine? But probably less effective?
Mercurius vivus: OK, the best I can figure out is that this is some form of mercury. Hello, it has MERCURY in it?
Organic/elemental mercury of either kind is something you want to avoid in pregnancy.
Also Arsenicum Album is an ARSENIC compound. Granted, it is medicinal when dilute. But this isn't FDA regulated is it? WHY would you trust that!
PLEASE PLEASE THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU TAKE THIS, ESPECIALLY WHEN PREGNANT!
PG#1 - 3rd cycle BFP. Team Green. HELLP syndrome @ 34 weeks.
Later diagnosed with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, possible link to HELLP.
PG#2 M/C 3/14 - Surprise BFP 2/13. Beta's doubled every 52 hours from 3w5d-5w5d
Viable pregnancy scan at 5w5d; 2nd u/s showed 2 days of growth in 7 but a HB of 120
3rd u/s on 3/10/14 had no HB and baby had only grown 7 days over 14
D&C 3/17/14 - complications - DX Retroflexed uterus, multiple tears to cervix
All Welcome
Chart
You do realize there are not the medical studies you are looking for because you can't just round up a bunch of pregnant woman and try out stuff on them. It's the same reason there aren't studies supporting your claim. Medical ethics get in the way. The only research is to analyze a group of women who chose to get the vaccine vs. those that didn't. That gives you statistics, which you are looking for. Those statistics, so far, say there is no increased risk of miscarriage or birth defects in women given the flu vaccine. However, there is definitely an increased risk of miscarriage if a pregnant woman contracts the flu. Seems like the statistics heavily favor the vaccine, no?
Also, you get the vaccine because you can't control what other people do. You are never going to make anyone stay home when they're sick. You're just not. Also, LOL at your choice. Well, when your choice affects the health and safety of others around you, other people have a right to call you a selfish twat. Some people can't get the vaccine and they rely on others to protect themselves to protect the "herd". So, it's not just about you. I guessdrunk driving is your choice, too, but you don't do that because you have potential to harm others and yourself, right?
Also, if you do get the flu and go to see a doctor to mitigate the risk, they will probably give you tamiflu, on which there is less research on pregnant women.
Also, serious LOLZ at the pro-vaxers being obnoxious. Most of the anti-vaxers are the most militant, obnoxious people I've ever met.
• Safety and effectiveness of Fluzone has not been established
in pregnant women. (8.1)
So this is what you are pointing out in your drug pamphlet link, correct? That's because THEY CAN"T DO MEDICAL RESEARCH STUDIES ON PREGNANT WOMEN. You do realize this is probably in every single FDA approved drug, vaccine, etc. that's prescribed, right?
No it's not. That's why there are different classes of drugs. That's why, when you get pregnant, they give you a list of drugs that are proven safe by the medical community. And yeah, they don't do studies on pregnant humans, they generally do them on animals.
Yes, and animal studies don't always correlate to humans, either. That's why they have done the statistical studies that I linked above. It's also hard to do studies on animals and correlate the data to humans when the animal you are doing the study on is not affected by, say, the flu. All you are left with is statistics. Those statistics say it's safe for most of the population of pregnant women. Of course, there is always a risk, but it's small. There is a risk with anything you take or do, though.
Insert from penicillin (which lots of women get for bacterial infections while pregnant):
Pregnancy Category B–Teratogenic Effects: Reproduction studies performed in the mouse,
rat, and rabbit have revealed no evidence of impaired fertility or harm to the fetus due to
penicillin G. Human experience with the penicillins during pregnancy has not shown any positive
evidence of adverse effects on the fetus. There are, however, no adequate and well controlled
studies in pregnant women showing conclusively that harmful effects of these drugs on the fetus
can be excluded. Because animal reproduction studies are not always predictive of human
response, this drug should be used during pregnancy only if clearly needed.
The only difference is that there have been animal studies done that show no adverse affects on fetuses. However, it says right there at the bottom that "animal reproduction studies are not always predictive of human response". So, yes, that warning is technically on all vaccines, antibiotics, etc. because WE CAN'T DO MEDICAL RESEARCH STUDIES ON PREGNANT HUMANS!! Again, you see that their human research here is limited to experience (statistics), which is following a group of women who required the medication.
But you had better just go ahead and die of a bacterial infection, because penicillin (and every other antibiotic) hasn't been proven truly safe for pregnant women via the medical research you are looking for.
I'm not a fan of putting anything in my body I don't need. And while the flu could still catch up with me, I also know that most people I know who do get the shot end up getting the flu (because it doesn't cover all strains!). If that is the case, why bother. Stay healthy, active, take your vitamins, and do what you can to stay away from people with colds/the flu.
Of course, this is just my opinion. I know people who get their flu shots religiously every season. Whatever works for you - follow your gut!
FTFY
The idiots just keep on coming.
And sorry, but lmao at the idea of being served at a restaurant by someone wearing a mask. Just get the damn shot FFS.
Haha. 3rd tri heartburn is a bitch, isn't it? I couldn't eat anything in 3rd tri without causing major heartburn/indigestion.