Natural Birth

Freebirth/Unassisted Childbirth

Pregnant with my 4th and considering UC. All other children were all natural water births. I'm seeking care with a CNM for the 4th time. I'm very intune with my body and trust my instincts. I'm looking for advice, links, stories, etc
PinknightsMrsCoons
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Re: Freebirth/Unassisted Childbirth

  • I guess I just have to ask, what's your opposition to having your midwife there for the birth? I feel like a good midwife would be ok with being there just in case she's needed. 


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    huntjulEveryusernameistakenabirdd9crazyjoedivola
  • I had a Canadian friend who did this.  Unassisted, in her own bathtub (not a water birth).  Of course, she had also trained as a doula....
    Lesbian mommies.  Legally married in New York 5/15/12.  Me (carrier): 35, Wife: 46.
    TTC since 12/12.  Repeated BFNs with known donor from 12/12 through 9/13. 
    Donor decided he couldn't keep helping us in 10/13.
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  • bromios said:
    iris427 said:
    Why not just find a MW who will be hands off and support a natural birth
    ... and then take that MW with you to a birthing center or hospital where they can provide emergency assistance if something goes terribly wrong! In a home birth, if the mother is bleeding out, there are limits to what a MW can do (basically, she can perform uterine compressions). At the hospital they can give you injections to hasten clotting, pitocin to encourage uterine contraction, and blood transfusions if it comes to that. Also, there are situations where an emergency c-section becomes necessary to save mother or baby or both, and MWs can't do those, period.  
    What does a birthing center have that a MW would not have?
    [Deleted User]CLLDLLhisbeautyalwaysKatrinamu
  • We do not live our lives in a vacuum. There is risk for taking a shower seriously people die doing this daily!!!! As I said there is more risk in me driving to work on the highway than there is me bleeding to death at home from a hemorrhage. Yet no one seemingly implies I am some how risking my life by going in to work every day. I think this whole mitigate all risk THINK of the CHILDREN BS is really over board and a scare topic. As for maternal death stats int he US they are stupid unreliable! Under reported by a 1/3 at least because only a third of women who die of child bearing related causes have autopsies did you know that? In other industrializzed nations ALL women of child bearing age who die get an autopsy. Also state to state county to county what they consider death from child birth varies so there is no stream lined reporting procedure. Guess where most of those birth and deaths occur? THE HOSPITAL! So clearly a "controlled environment" isnt always safer or staffed with even decent Doctors
    DaniallebeckSquirtmamaabirdd9
  • She gave me a fair amount of opposition against my possible unmediated vaginal breech delivery planned in a hospital with an OB (b/c MW can only assist in a vaginal breech) and the best NICU in the region.  Presumably b/c her breech extraction was traumatic. She also advised against an EVC at 37+ weeks b/c it could bring on preterm labor.
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  • bromios said:



    alliejoe said:

    @bromios An honest question, why are you on the natural birth page? At first I was under the assumption that you planned a natural birth but then conceived twins and your birth plans changed. 
    This.
    And @alliejoe - Really? I didn't intend to suggest that I opposed that plan (because I don't, it sounds like a perfectly reasonable one). And is "unmediated" supposed to be "unmedicated"? If so, all I was saying is that it can hurt like a mother. And I didn't say don't do an EVC, I suggested considering whether any of the methods you were talking about were associated with bringing on preterm labor (and pointed out that a birth before 39 weeks is now considered pre-term). That's it. I think it is awesome that you made sure your hospital has the best NICU in the region (I still don't think you'd like to spend any time there, but that seems like a really responsible choice). 

     This is being said without an ounce snark, it sounds like you had a very traumatic birth experience in addition to having friends who also had a traumatic experiences. Perhaps you would benefit from talking to someone about it?
    Chillpr[Deleted User]
  • Yup, it is supposed to read unmedicated, not unmediated. Unfortunate autocorrect. 

    I don't doubt that it will hurt, but an extraction is different from a beech delivery. I can't imagine entering an extraction without some pain relief unless it was an emergent need. 

    OP- sorry to have hijacked your post.
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  • alliejoe said:
    @bromios An honest question, why are you on the natural birth page? At first I was under the assumption that you planned a natural birth but then conceived twins and your birth plans changed. The more I read, the more it seems as though you're here to stir the pot and tell everyone that their plans, hopes, intentions, etc. are stupid and that they were lucky their successful natural and/or home births didn't end I tragedy.

     I agree that an unassisted birth is an unnecessary risk, but your overwhelming opinion pops up in every feed you post on.
    I was thinking the same thing myself...sort of like a blood bank representative at a Christian Scientist convention or something...
    Lesbian mommies.  Legally married in New York 5/15/12.  Me (carrier): 35, Wife: 46.
    TTC since 12/12.  Repeated BFNs with known donor from 12/12 through 9/13. 
    Donor decided he couldn't keep helping us in 10/13.
    New known donor in 11/13 - BFP first cycle!  First positive came back on 11/23/13.
    Ultrasound at 10w on 1/8/14 showed no heartbeat and stopped growth at 7w5d.  Actual miscarriage on 1/19/14.

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    [Deleted User]
  • Oh Lord..this thread isn't going to end well...
    PPD/PPA Mom...it has been super hard, but I'm making it! Slow steps...
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  • bromios said:
    sschwege said:

    alliejoe said:
    @bromios An honest question, why are you on the natural birth page? At first I was under the assumption that you planned a natural birth but then conceived twins and your birth plans changed. 
    This.
    And @alliejoe - Really? I didn't intend to suggest that I opposed that plan (because I don't, it sounds like a perfectly reasonable one). And is "unmediated" supposed to be "unmedicated"? If so, all I was saying is that it can hurt like a mother. And I didn't say don't do an EVC, I suggested considering whether any of the methods you were talking about were associated with bringing on preterm labor (and pointed out that a birth before 39 weeks is now considered pre-term). That's it. I think it is awesome that you made sure your hospital has the best NICU in the region (I still don't think you'd like to spend any time there, but that seems like a really responsible choice). 
     This is being said without an ounce snark, it sounds like you had a very traumatic birth experience in addition to having friends who also had a traumatic experiences. Perhaps you would benefit from talking to someone about it?
    No snark taken :) I'm a big believer in seeking the help of professionals (that much should be clear from my posts). I would never try to tackle the emotional damage I sustained without professional help. A lot of people on this board are clearly very attached to their vision for their delivery, and part of what I am trying to bring is the perspective of someone who has learned to see a healthy baby as a win regardless of the uncomfortable, harsh, or even traumatic conditions under which that child is born. I always thought home births were a terrible idea, but I used to be very attached to the idea of an unmedicated birth, of obsessing over when my child received its first bath, whether to get the eye drops or not. As it turned out, all of those choices were taken out of my hands, and I still ended up with healthy, happy, emotionally connected children. I now understand how little those other things really matter in the grand scheme of things. And I hate the thought of another mother losing a child unnecessarily because the care that child needed wasn't immediately available. My feelings on the subject are strong, but they come from a place of wanting the best end result for every mother and baby. 
    I agree with you on certain points.  There are some women out there who value the experience above all else.  I know one personally who wanted a HB assisted by a MW.  As her pregnancy progressed the MW decided a HB was too risky and recommended she continue under her care, but be delivered in a hospital.  This woman would not be convinced otherwise and when she went into labor maintained her commitment to stay home.  The MW did eventually come and deliver the baby when she realized she was going to go unassisted and thankfully for everyone involved it all worked out fine.  But I think women like this are few and far between.  

    Most people on here are educated and have spent a lot of time weighing the risks and benefits.  Look at my situation, I am fortunate that I live in a big city with a many options in terms of hospitals.  I picked a hospital known for being low-intervention, the only down-side no NICU.  There is a hospital equal distance away that has a NICU, but is known for being a c-section factory and their rates support their reputation.  I'm sure some (including my mom a pediatric nurse) would argue I should have gone to this other hospital.  My thinking was, the chances of my baby needing Level III care is low, if they did need it the Level II team could stabilize before a transfer, my chance of 'needing' a c-section or any other interventions increases by being at this high intervention hospital which increases the risks to myself and baby.  It's just not as black and white as saying, "the best end result for mother and baby."  

    Another point of which I agree with you is that some women get tunnel vision when it comes to planning that 'perfect' birth.  Sadly they are just opening themselves up for disappointment, because real-life generally doesn't follow a strictly laid out plan.  However, I think many women on here view a birth plan as sort of their ideal, their Plan A.  There are some women on here, myself included who make a c-section birth plan as well.  When I drew that up my hope was that it would gather dust in my chart, but I made that with the knowledge that even the best plans can go in a totally opposite direction.  DH and I also wrote up a plan and discussed what would happen if baby had to go to the Special Care Nursery, which did happen with my second.  As I watched them wheel little DS out of my room it made me feel comforted to know that we had a plan (no formula, paci, first bath).  So I don't think for a lot of women on here it's about being 'attached to their vision for their delivery', it's about making informed, educated choices with the understanding that when the day comes the plan may change.

    You seem well educated and I think some of your points are good ones.  
    [Deleted User]
  • trawas01 said:
    Lurker with a question.... why unassisted birth? I get natural, I get hospitals, I get birth centers, I get home births. But as long as humans have been living together and having babies woman have sought out other woman to help them with birth, usually woman who knew what birth was all about and how to help....where and why did this trend of delivering your child on your own happen?
    There are some cultures that have historically or still have unassisted births today.  So it's not just something crazy women in industrialized cultures have come up with.  But the cultures that practice it have very high mortality rates. And yes, for most of human history, in most societies, women have given birth with assistance, and for good reason.  


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  • jess9802jess9802 member
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    edited December 2013
    This is the natural childbirth board, not a Homebirth board, and not a U/C Board. This is also not Mothering.com, where dissenting opinions are aggressively deleted. People are welcome to post here and share information even if they do not end up having an unmedicated vaginal delivery.

    The training, education, and licensure of midwives is absolutely relevant to the outcomes of planned homebirth. Perhaps in some areas and states homebirths are attended by CNMs, but that's certainly not the case in my state (Oregon), which has a very high rate of homebirth compared to other states. There is ONE accredited birth center in Oregon (in fact, just one in all of Oregon, Washington, and Idaho) that is affiliated with a hospital and staffed by CNMs. Otherwise, most of those birthing centers are staffed by direct entry midwives, who would not be qualified to attend births in any European country.

    The debate over planned out of hospital birth has been so intense in this state that the Legislature mandated that intended place of birth information be listed on birth certificates starting in 2012. A homebirth proponent analyzed the data. The overall death rate for infants was very low regardless of place of birth. But the death rate for neonates whose births were planned to take place out of the hospital was higher: for planned OOH births, it was a death rate of 4.5/1000; for planned OOH with DEM attendant, 5.6/1000; for planned hospital births, 0.6/1000. I became interested in this topic because of a very well-publicized stillbirth at a home birth in my city in 2011.

    This isn't to say women shouldn't have a choice as to where they give birth, but it should be an informed choice, and looking at data from foreign countries with different models of healthcare (especially those where midwives are universally highly trained and integrated into the healthcare system) in making that choice undermines the claim that it's an informed one.
    [Deleted User]
  • I'm sorry I should have said SUPPORTIVE comments only. I don't succumb to fear mongering. I used to be against UC as well, however the more I've learned, the more it speaks to me personally. I have done the midwife thing. I've done the hospital thing. The midwives were more in the way than helpful. I trust my gut and intuition. If my gut says go to the hospital, then I will. I believe birth is a normal part of life. As long as I'm low risk and everything looks good then I am personally ok with birthing without a ob or midwife. My husband and doula will both be here. My doula will bring oxygen in case of an emergency. We will also prepare for other possible complications. There is so much fear surrounding birth which really impedes the process. Yes there is a very slight chance of something going wrong, but I could also be in an accident on the way to the hospital and die. Life is all about weighing risk. I feel for my family that this is a risk I'm willing to take. There are risks with going to the hospital as well, but no one ever thinks about that. U don't have to support my choice, but if u have nothing constructive to say then please move along. Thank u
    Lsm7338
  • OP, you don't get to control who responds to your posts. So long as no one is violating the TOS, they are entitled to post. This is not an echo chamber. There are very thoughtful and intelligent posters in this forum who may raise a point you did not consider. If you are not open to hearing those opinions, you may wish to consider a forum like the UC board on Mothering.com.

    FWIW, you had a shoulder dystocia during one delivery, so obviously you are aware of what can happen during labor. I hope your doula is aware of that history and that you understand the limits of her ability to assist you in labor in case of a similar complication. I sincerely wish you and your baby the best.
    sweettalkin417rainydayluck
  • Unassisted free birth is WAY more radical than home birth with a midwife. Why do you not want a midwife there? How will you and your partner feel if there's a complication you can't resolve that the midwife could have, and the baby is hurt or even dies? Do you think you can take care of a pretty common complication like the cord around the neck? How would you know how to do that? Have you really examined why you are drawn to unassisted birth? I don't see what is so appealing about it. It just seems like you are trying to top your other births. I don't mean to be offensive, and the birth would probably be just fine, but my tolerance for risk is just too low to even consider it.
    aylafsu88sweettalkin417[Deleted User]
  • I'm sorry I should have said SUPPORTIVE comments only. I don't succumb to fear mongering. I used to be against UC as well, however the more I've learned, the more it speaks to me personally. I have done the midwife thing. I've done the hospital thing. The midwives were more in the way than helpful. I trust my gut and intuition. If my gut says go to the hospital, then I will. I believe birth is a normal part of life. As long as I'm low risk and everything looks good then I am personally ok with birthing without a ob or midwife. My husband and doula will both be here. My doula will bring oxygen in case of an emergency. We will also prepare for other possible complications. There is so much fear surrounding birth which really impedes the process. Yes there is a very slight chance of something going wrong, but I could also be in an accident on the way to the hospital and die. Life is all about weighing risk. I feel for my family that this is a risk I'm willing to take. There are risks with going to the hospital as well, but no one ever thinks about that. U don't have to support my choice, but if u have nothing constructive to say then please move along. Thank u

    Directing people on how to respond never goes over well.
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  • wifeofadamwifeofadam member
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    edited December 2013
    My last birth was a planned homebirth but my MW didn't make it in time.  We had a successful UC (with a midwife on the phone walking my BFF through what to do).  I feel very lucky that everything turn out well and no one was harmed, but I would never do that again (if I could control it).  So much could have gone wrong.

    And I'm thankful that my midwife eventually showed up and was able to help deliver the placenta, assess me for tearing, and do a newborn assessment.  Those are the things that no one there would have been qualified to do.  Birthing the baby is the easy part, I think.

    I'm a big advocate for HB, but UC is a risk I wouldn't take if I had the choice.
        
    iris427sweettalkin417Hallil
  • edited December 2013
    @+adamwife+ OMG look at all your beautiful kids! How are you doing?
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  • iris427 said:
    @+adamwife+ OMG look at all your beautiful kids! How are you doing?
    Doing well!  Thanks for asking!!  They keep me busy, that's for sure.

    CONGRATULATIONS!!  I'm so excited for you. 
        
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